Ok, I've been lucky enough in the past to just be given boats, but now as I'm faced with buying one I can't decide what I want. At the 2005 outdoor reatailers show in Salt Lake City I got to dink around in the new Liquidlogic CR (a 2006 model) which is made from Rayodon (or some other fancy name for plastic) and boy does it seem like a sports car of a boat. I also had the chance to paddle the Jackson Kayakes 4fun which is made from cross linked polyethylene (a proven material). They are essentially the same boat with similar dynamics, the greatest differences are in materials and aesthetics. BASIC POINT: WHICH MATERIAL IS BETTER FOR ME TO DROP $1000 ON???[color=orange:f3f18ba329][/color:f3f18ba329][size=18:f3f18ba329][/size:f3f18ba329]

i like standard plastic but that is cuz it is cheap but if you got money to burn i think kevlar would be the best

Both are good materials. You arep robaly not going to break a playboat though if that is a concern for you. Both have good plastic. Both companes are redoing their outfitting and let me just that say that jackson new boat armour is SWEET. Once you get used to jackson's unique outfitting it's the best. If you think that someone else may use your boat then jackson is more easily adjustable. Also FYI Liquidlogic, dagger, and wavesport all get their plastic from the same maufacturer, it's the same stuff. Liquid logic just buffs out their boats to make them shinier. All in all, jackson boats are signifantly cheaper and probaly stronger.

I think both brands use good material, as most well-known brands do. In fact, I think it is not JUST standard plastics, it's rather expensive, high-performance plastics.

Check out this fun picture from JK,
www.jacksonkayak.com/jkgallery06/photo.cfm?image=20

this awesome weblog from Liquidlogic.
shanesliquidlogic.blogspot.com/2005/12/r...k-kayak-testing.html

and how to make a kayak (there are two more movies on that topic on that weblog, you have probably seen them already)
www.lvmvideo.com/quicktime/MakingAKayakPart1.mov

Well, I am pretty happy with my JK AllStar. I think the material is really great. The boat still looks pretty SSSSSEXY to me after one season!

Aren't all modern rotation-molded boats made of cross linked polyethylene (PE)? I think the composition of the material that individual brands use varies only slightly (this is where the black magic comes in). However, this variations may have a significant effect on the material properties.

Could you be more specific on Rayodon? Isn't it just a brand name of a cross linked polyethylene?

Isn't the design, i.e., the shape, of the boat more critical?

the shape and design of the boat are monumentally more important than the actual composition. As far as Rayodon vs HDPE, Cross link etc. I couldn't even begin to tell you the actual differences, I just pull the names off of the website and make sure none of them are cast iron. I guess I've been a little greased up by the Liquidlogic website, their free dvd's and the booth at the OR show this summer. It's amazing how free shit will build brand loyalty. All in all though, I think the Jackson is an all around better boat, and definitely a better buy.

From what i've heard i can tell you some good plastics. Don't know avlibatily over the pond of these though.

Dagger, Liquidlogic, Wavesport good plastics.

Pyranha, Perception plastics bad.

There is no real difference in quality in the plastics of any of the manufacturers! PYRANHA have good plastic! No boat is bullet proof they all can break but the CR looks awsome! Im paddlin the s/m 7O its very good alrounder!

On the other hand carbon composite much sexier get a ANgst Urge so much fun to paddle

While many kayak manufacturers buy plastic from the same place, it doesn't come out the same. The mix of the plastic is a big part, as they can choose how hard the plastic mix that goes into the boat is. This is a big deal, too soft and it dents too easily, too hard and prone to cracking. Another major factor is how long and slowly they cool the boats after molding. Long slow cooling is good, fast, high production cooling tends to result in a weaker boat.

HDPE/HTP is stronger (Eskimo, Prijon) but can't be molded into nearly as many shapes, thus bad playboats from both companies.
Crosslink is stronger, but when it breaks the bone is done, no minor breaks that can be fixed. (as in my CFS that has a repaired crack and is still going, if it was crosslink it would be dead) Crosslink is also super toxic to make boats out of, people hate working with it.

Design is a huge thing though, Pyranha and their stupid bolt placement being a great example, S6X and S6F showing around 50% breaking at the thigh braces, horrible.

[quote:5f9723b8f0="Urge"]There is no real difference in quality in the plastics of any of the manufacturers! PYRANHA have good plastic! No boat is bullet proof they all can break but the CR looks awsome! Im paddlin the s/m 7O its very good alrounder!

On the other hand carbon composite much sexier get a ANgst Urge so much fun to paddle [/quote:5f9723b8f0]

yea there aint but there is a difference in how they make them and how many air bubbles there are in them and other stuff like that eg thickness

so i reality there is a difference
but DAM those LL boats look good the shiny plastic yay lol

jackson claims that there boats scratch thirty percent less, but ive padled one and, although the fun is an awesome boat, i personally didnt see any scratch resisatance. in a scooter however, the plastic to me jus tfeels more solid, but it probably is about the same either wa, like some other people said, unless the plastic is really bad, go with design.

as long as my boat doesnt puncture it can get all the scratches it wants

If you suckers are sooo woried about scratches by pyrannah boats. They get a few scratches, break, then pyrannah is awsome about sending you their newest boat that replaced the one you broke. Then you scratch, break, upgrade, and voila. Too bad you guys don't see the beauty in cheap plastic.

just plastic is good strong and cheap

Just get the one you want! That is why they have warranties!

thers essentialy no difference its just hype i used to be into bmxing and they made a big thing bout chro-moly 4130 steel thas just standard steel

[quote:54ca33b9c3="420247"]
Just get the one you want! That is why they have warranties! [/quote:54ca33b9c3]

A warrenty is not a whole lot of use to you if your boat decides to split open in the middle of a class IV/V gorge...

anythin that floats will do

i second tht last post as long as it aint gonna sink and looks gd il paddle it

Like I said
It is going to happen no matter what kind of plastic your ass is on, or whatever the hell your paddling. I am sure you are in the store with your molecular chart figuring out which boat you want...right? Pick the one you want, that is why they make warranties. If you are in a Class v gorge...shitty timing. Take better care of your shit. Ronnnie!

meh gotta love kayaking so what if your boat breaks down it happens carry it out and go get you a new one maybe you have to get a job boo woo

[quote:fee2f93412="420247"]Like I said
It is going to happen no matter what kind of plastic your ass is on, or whatever the hell your paddling. I am sure you are in the store with your molecular chart figuring out which boat you want...right? Pick the one you want, that is why they make warranties.[/quote:fee2f93412]

Okay so here is a scenario for you -
You spend a couple of hundred euro getting yourself to some foreign destination say uganda for two weeks of fun. Week one your boat breaks because of either dodgy plastic or shoddy manufacturing, leaving you for the rest of the trip without your boat!

[rant]
Are you going to be happy with your warrenty then? Sure your going to get a new boat but your also going have wasted most of a trip sitting on your ass watching your mates have fun.

I may not be in my local shop with my molecular chart studying the toughness of each boat, but especially these days when boats are all so similar, the plastic quality is a huge factor (for me anyway) when I go to buy a boat.

Also being a student I can't afford to buy a new boat every season, so what happens when your boat breaks and its out of warrenty? If we all adaped the attitude you have, then in a few years time, everyone will be paddling boats made from cheese that we'll have to change every year and the manufacturers would be making millions.
[/rant]

[quote:fee2f93412="420247"]If you are in a Class v gorge...shitty timing. Take better care of your shit. Ronnnie! [/quote:fee2f93412]

Yes if my boat is as strong as it possibly can be, and I've taken reasonable care of it, you could say shitty timing. Especially when creeking, you will find a time that you will be essentially placing your life in the hands of your boat, and if it breaks then, you will be properly knackered. We should be demanding higher build standards from boat manufacturers and not accepting shittier ones and then saying 'oh well, if it breaks, they'll give me a new one when I get out of hospital' (slight dramatisation, I know!)

Mediocre-of moderate or low quality, value, ability or performance.