hey all ,
is it just me or has every one else had similar trouble trting to buy the right boat the first time( is this possible) . I am looking for a boat i can paddle for hours as a fitness thing as well as a boat i can enjoy white water in and have fun. ( sound familiar?) . So far I have been recomended about 50 different boats , i liked the blackwater 10.5 but it plows thru the water , next was the RPM all sounded good but not enuff room in it to store pretty much anything. The came the liquid logic Jefe nice boat ( i fit in it ) but very expensive in Australia. The Dagger GT 8.1 or GTX seems like the winning boat at the moment . i was also spoken too about the Animas but the forums on here suggest learning in it and moving on quickly.....not what i wanna do. So , bearring in mind that I am in australia , there seems to be only a handful of really helpful stores out there and most stores do not carry the boats in stock..... HELP any ideas is the GT a good buy?????

you are getting a large variety of responses because what you are asking for is a boat that does everything, and that boat does not exist in any kind of perfomance model.

Whitewater boats are short, slow, and don't carry much gear. When someone says a whitewater boat is fast and has alot of storeage capacity, they are comparing it only to other whitewater boats. For example, the DragoRossi Critical Mass has a hatch option. It carries gear better than the Dagger Nomad, and has a very dry ride with that gear in it. It is 9 feet long so has some good speed. But, all of that is relative to other whitewater boats. It is not as fast as the Blackwater you mentioned, which is a \"recreational\" boat.

\"Recreational\" kayaks are the huge middle category between full-on sea kayaks and full-on whitewater kayaks. They can be long and track straight,or be short and turn easily. Most of them can handle some super easy class 3 whitewater, but not well. (you have to be a good paddler to do it). Most of them carry more speed than a whitewater boat, but not as much as a sea kayak. Most of them turn better than a sea kayak, but not as well as a white water kayak.

Sea kayaks are long and lean and fast and carry lots of gear. But, you wouldn't want to run any whitewater in them,perhaps a rough beach landing is fun, but no river whitewater.

What type of environment are you going to use the boat on most? That will help you make a better decision.
If you have a small class 2 run near you, and that is what you will be doing the most, then go for that Blackwater.
If you are going to explore lots of river that are class 3 and more, with gear, then get the Critical Mass full-on whitewater type of boat

Hi chil,

As Scott has said, there's no one kayak that will do everything. It's like car's I guess. You can have a sport car, which goes fast and is fun, but often not practical for carrying gear. Or you can have a big ute which fits everything for the weekend but isn't going to handle too well or accelerate too quick.

You really need to tell us what type of paddling you want to do. Is it only whitewater? or flatwater too for fitness? Do you just want to run rivers from point A to point B? Do you want to learn to do tricks and play on river waves?

My guess is that if you're only just getting into kayaking, you probably don't know what element of kayaking you'll enjoy most. And if you think you have an idea, this could change.

My suggestion is to find a cheap second hand boat that you can learn the basics in. Once you learn the basics you'll figure out what sort of paddling you like best. Then you can upgrade to a playboat, a full on creeker, a river runner, or somewhere in between.

As for being told 50 different boats, they all teach you different things. I personally learnt in a Dagger Animas and Dagger RPM to begin with. I think they are very good to learn in. Having said that, once I started paddling a playboat, I had to break a few habbits that where picked up paddling such a long boat. If you start with a shorter boat, you may not pick up these habits, but it may take a little longer at the start to progress. This isn't such a bad thing, but it's easy to lose confidence paddling in whitewater if you're taking regular swims.

I'd still recommend an RPM to start off with. They are pretty good on flat water, but decent in rapids too. They are one of the few boats that are made in Australia, so they are cheaper than most other boats which are imported. As for not being able to fit enough stuff in, there's plenty of room. I spent 5 days paddling through the Shoalhaven gorge in an RPM with all my clothes, food, tent etc. and still had food to spare. Having said that, learning to pack a kayak is a skill on its own.

Also, there is an Australian paddling website/forum here: www.adventurepro.com.au/paddleaustralia/ - There are a number of river guides on here. Or click on the \"Message Board\" for the forums. There's also a for sale section in the forums to look for second hand items. You could also try Nymboida Canoe Centre (near Grafton), they often have some second hand kayaks available. They also offer instruction, and it is a good place to learn the basics of kayaking. I think their number is 02 6649 4155. Or else look it up on yellow.com.au.


Cheers and good luck!
Allen.

All the advice above is pretty much on the money so I'm going to specifically answer your question about the Dagger GT. We use them at work as a beginner / intermediate white water boat and they work well. The latest ones come from the UK and have very basic outfitting which you would need to beef up yourself but thats not too hard. We use them on the flat, in white water and in the surf and they perform well. They have decent rails, a flat bottom for some basic play moves and are not too sluggish when ploughing down those stretches of flat water between rapids.
They also have a fair amount of space in the back for packing gear so for an all-round white water boat they are pretty good. It all depends on what you think the majority of your paddling is going to be to determine the best boat for you, but the GT is a good starter white water boat.

Hope that helps

Cheers

Mark

thanx for all the advice , I spent the other day paddling at the Nymboida Canoe centre ( level 1 and 2 rapids) . Discovered I have a long long way to go, spent the morning wet ( upside down and trapped for most of it ) But did get to try a heap of boats. I gave in to ego and climbed on a wide sit on after lunch and fell off no more. I guess I need something more stable like the Bass I have been paddling. All the advice I have been given on here is brilliant. Now I realise what I have been paddling on is not close to level 2 but more level 1 and Gravel rushes. Thank You again for all the responses.

The big ass bass is a wide and stable kayak. However, if you put in the hard yards and learn in a proper whitewater kayak, you'll be greatly rewarded. Sign up to a rolling class if possible, and don't get down about falling out all the time. We've all been there!! But the rewards at the end of it are definately worth it! Having fun and being confident to paddle down rivers and see things that you can only ever see from kayaking down a river in a remote place!

Good Luck!

You could buy 2 secondhand boats for the price of a new one. get one for each purpose.

ok i believe i am sooooo close ( this has been a little too drawn out) after my wet weekend i have decided to learn more skills plus where i live the water just isn't there for a great ww boat that will drive me insane on the smooth stuff.......

so the decision is..............a Dagger Approach............ ok now tell me quick have i made a good choice or lost my mind?