My throw bag is getting a little long in the tooth and I'm thinking of replacing it. It recently took a lot of strain doing some portaging and also with rescue practise etc. It's a Palm 15m but I'm thinking of a 20m from Palm. Like this:
www.palmequipmenteurope.com/acatalog/info_91.html

I've looked at some other bags but haven't seen anything decent. This Palm also has a high breaking strain and can be used in technical rescues and abseiling it seems. Some of the other bags have a far lower breaking strain.

Does anybody know of any other bags? I haven't really looked around too much but haven't found anything that matches the Palm so far. Any ideas?

Thanks..

www.whitewaterhelmet.com/throw.asp

WRSI seem to have a funky idea with their throw bag, might be worth a look!

Sounds good. Yeah palm's throwlines are the some of the best in the business.
But i think yak do quite a good one
www.yak-paddling.com/pages/accessories.htm#
But its only a personal preference

Hope this helps

..Ross

Thanks guys. I'll look into it. The Yak site isn't too great though, must say. Picture is too small and it gives no information on the type of rope used and the breaking strain. Not sure I like using something that looks like a rugby ball either. Might check out a bag made locally here too.

Appreciate the links though.

Cheers,
Adrian

I wouldn't recomend absailing on a Polypropylene rope the melting point is too low. I am not aware of any throwbag that it is ok to absail on. Although having said that some of the stuff available in the States might be ok you would have to do some research. Have you looked at HF they do some great bags I currently use this one www.systemxkayak.co.uk/gear_detail.php?productID=204

It throws well is really easy to pack is quite a bit stronger than the Palm one you have been looking at yet is still not recomended to absail on. It also comes with a relly nifty strap to put round the centre piller of your kayak so that you can clip it in without using a krab there by eliminating the risk of accidentaly clipping yourself to your boat durring a wet exit.
just my:2cents:

Look here for ropes specification used in hf throwbags:
www.paddle-people.com/2/prod_hf/wurfsack/wurfsackseile.htm

Thanks for the links Si and Marcin. Appreciate it.

Si:
Abseiling when the guys jump down at full speed jumping back like locusts is only for the movies. That type of abseiling would also melt the core of a dynamic climbing rope. Static ropes with really, really good anchors are used for that purpose. When climbing people abseil very slowly. Often there may only be one anchor as in multi-pitch, traditional climbing and this would be used with care, not wild abandon.

For paddling purposes, the abseil is just less than half the length of the rope (so not far) and if going down will not heat the rope or belay device much because you SHOULD be going really slowly and carefully. Using a Munter hitch or something like that would greaty increase friction, and therefore damage to the rope... Use a proper belay device. (Black Diamond ATC..)

My Thanks anyway for the concern.

Hey Adrian yes you are right there. You sound like you are a climber as well as a boater in which case you will understand the dynamics of the whole thing. My concern was for someone with little or no climbing knowledge. Having said that the manufactures will not recommend the Palm or the HF bag as safe for abseil use. That has to come down to personal judgement and your own personal level of acceptable risk, with the full understanding you are using a piece of equipment for a purpose for which is was not designed. If this is just for personal use then no probs. But if you are using it in a commercial guiding/teaching situation then you will need to think very carefully.
Another point to consider is your defender. You mention the ATC this as I understand it is ok for ropes down to 9mm (you might get away with 8.5mm) therefore the Palm bag will be ok with this device. The HF bag is thinner (not sure exactly how thin but looks more like 7/8mm to me) and therefore will not be as grippy on the rope. This would need to be checked out in a controlled situation first before you used it for real. What I am trying to say is make sure the method/piece of equipment you are using to decanted is suitable for the type of rope you are using and the conditions you will be using them under (length of ab steepness of ground etc).
Personally I don't like to carry any extra kit than I need and so will often use a classic ab or south African ab as this needs no extra kit, the Munter Hitch which you also mention works very well although you are right they are not always the best thing for the rope, but yet again that depends on the type of rope you are using the Palm rope would not fair too well with a Munter hitch. Another method which also works well on double ropes and uses kit you are likely to have with you is a karabiner brake.
If I know for certain that I will be having to ab into a gorge or something then I would certainly consider a proper climbing harness and rope.

Just more.

It would appear I can’t spell descender or descend.

Thanks for your concern.

To be exact, the ATC can be used with ropes down to 7.7mm.

www.bdel.com/gear/atc.php

Please explain what a South African ab is? Thanks.

Hey. I hadn’t checked out the specs for the ATC you are right there. Although obviously the thinner the rope used in the device the less friction you will have.

Here in the UK the South African abseil is called that as it was first used by South African Mountain Guides. I had a look on the net to see if I could find any diagrams but unfortunately I can’t I could only find one for the classic abseil. So you will have to see if you can work it out from this written description.

· Having selected your anchor and thrown the ends equally down the cliff, stand between the ropes (so you have one running either side of you). Take one in each hand and cross them behind your back and bring them to your sides in front of you. You now have a loop of rope on either side running from each hand down behind you.
· Step your left leg over the left loop and your right leg over the right loop. Grasp the ropes together behind you between your legs, and bring them up together to be held in the right hand foe right-handed people and the left hand for left-handed people.
· This hand is your control hand: feeding the rope through controls your seep of decent. The other hand can hold can hold one of the lengths of rope in front of you, but as it does not contribute to the decent, do not hold on too tight. The further you go down from your anchor, the higher up under your arms the rope will support you, which also creates a supporting harness shape behind you.

I hope this makes sense as it’s really hard to describe something like this without pictures or diagrams.

Just found these pics on the net hope they help

chetwynd.info/images/courses/chair_1.jpg
chetwynd.info/images/courses/chair_2.jpg
chetwynd.info/images/courses/chair_3.jpg
chetwynd.info/images/courses/chair_4.jpg

Interesting. I've never seen that method but I think I know what you're trying to explain. Thanks.

I actually won a throw bag this past weekend at a festival. Let's see how good it is once it actually arrives in the post. The sponsor couldn't get the goods up in time so just left a voucher. Should be ok.

Sounds good. All the best kit is free kit. Let me know what it is and if it is any good or not be interested to know.

Dose any one think this is a ok throw line ?
cgi.ebay.co.uk/12m-throwbag-throwline-sa...ZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Looks ok to me but it is always hard to tell from a photo. I would suggest that it is a little short at 12m. I personally use a 20m bag. But it all comes down to what you are using the bag for and how far you can throw it. Not a lot of point in having a 20m bag if you can only throw 5m.
500kg breaking strain is not that high for 10mm rope. Palm do a bag 12m with 8mm rope with 600kg breaking strain for £19.95.
You pays your money and takes your choice

Here is the link to the Palm throwbags take a look it's a good start point. Palm bags are generally well made.

opps sorry never was very good at this computer thingy here is the link

www.palmequipmenteurope.com/acatalog/Throwlines.html

chears for the help

I would also recommend the Hf Bags over anything else on the MArket. Due to the funnel shaping of the bag there is loads of room for all the rope and also reduces friction on the throw easy to repack. Oh they also produce the rope for Palm and use the same stuff in their Compact Alpin my personal favorite. The weasel is a great bag too 18m of rope in a very light small bag.

I personally have never beeen fond of either Yak or Palms bag mainly due to the poor closure system on Yaks, and Palm for making their bags too small for the ammount of rope they are ment to hold. Palm have addressed tis by making their bags longer but ont wider at the throat so still pain in the ass to repack and not as easy to throw.

Hf throw bags are bomber, we use them at work. Easy to pack, excellent quality and very user friendly. I would recommend them highly.

I got my free throw bag in the post this afternoon. I had actually won the 16m with that belt thing but asked them to rather send me the 22m bag without the belt, which was actually cheaper. So I got the 22m with no belt:
www.goyagear.co.za/index.php?comp=content&op=view&id=13

Made in South Africa. Seems like a quality product. Pretty easy to stuff, unlike my Palm and it looks solid. So I'm pretty stoked and not going to get anything else until this ones shagged.