Has anyone paddled a 0 degree, Straight shaft paddle?

I am buying my first paddle and found a Werner Desporado at NOC for $132. The price seems right for my first, but I can't decide on a 45degree feather or a 0 degree. I'm leaning to the 0. Is this a bad idea. I am guessing 197 (I'm 6'2") will be a good length. I am a beginner and will be in a Mamba 8.5. TIA

0° pros:
- if the blades are flat on the water surface, you can roll just by pulling on the complete paddle (not a huge pro, but fun)
- everything is symmetric. great if you're a logic/symmetry freak like me
- easy for bow stalls

0° cons:
- annoying with headwind, as the wind always pushes your non-active blade in the wrong direction. we hardly ever have wind here, so for me, that's not an issue.
- difficult to punch through huge holes, as the backwash pushes your non active blade in the wrong direction. not an issue for me either, as i nevr paddle though such gigantic holes
- each hand has to let the paddle twist a little on each stroke. normally, you keep your paddle with one hand and let it twist in the other. with 0° both hands have to be a bit loose. you may also consider this a pro, as it makes you less cramped...
- make sure to keep the non-active blade well out of the water on your on-side roll, otherwise it will cut itself under the surface. just takes a little getting used to.

i used to be convinced that 0° would be completely logical and the way to go, so i even bought one a couple of years ago, but to be honest, i never use it. i always end up using 20-30°...

just my 2 cents.

I paddle with a 30 degree feather on my paddles. It's a personal preference. You've got to see what works for you. Jeroen already covered the pros and cons nicely.

For river running/creeking I use a length of 197cm and for playing 194cm. I'm 6'. I think your 197 paddle will be fine for you. There are people that creek with paddles far shorter and play with paddles WAY shorter, and I'm talking about people a similar height..

Generally speaking, most people paddle 45 or 30 degree. I've not come across many (if any) who use zero. (except for the symmetry freaks )

Same same

i have two Werner paddles a despirado for any scrapy stuff because the blades are plastic and can stand up to punishment. and a fiberglass powerhouse crank shaft for the big water. im 6ft1" and there both 197cm. i ordered both my paddles at 20degree for all the reasons stated above. 20 - 30 is a good feel to me. i was actualy surprised to see how flat 20 is. there aint much there at all. i also find that from 20s or 30s you can step back to 45 pretty easy which is what most of us carry as our split paddles. my two cents:silly:

I am also looking into purchasing my first paddle. I am also looking at stuff similar to the werner desperado, does anybody have prefrences when it comes to bent or straight shaft, and prefrences of AT or Werner, or know of brands that make smaller paddles around 188. I am a female who does a little playboating/river running and I have paddled h20 188 before.

I paddle both. unfortunatly if your lookimg at entry level whitewater with Werner they don't offer crank shaft. you have to step up to fiberglass at least. i had a go at a Riot before i setled on the Werners and the crank was pretty extream. the Werner crank is easy to get used to and you do get grater pull on your strokes.

Ausykayaker wrote:

i also find that from 20s or 30s you can step back to 45 pretty easy which is what most of us carry as our split paddles.

Good point about the splits...

Another option for a split is a Lendel. They are a lot of money for a spare but they are 4 piece, bent shaft and can adjust to any feather you want. Makes it nice to not have to go from a bent shaft to a straight shaft after whatever made you paddless.

Thank ya'll for the responses, they have been helpfull. After considering them and looking online for product I fugured out that I need a much bigger budget I think I'll start with a 30degree Werner Rio 197. Considered the upgrade to desperado but it was 0 or 45.

With this one knocked out I can start pondering about a PFD (Astral or Lotus)

Thanks Again !

Mate

if ya keen it only takes a couple of weeks for Werner to bang you up a paddle at what ever specks. Looking at PFD i assume you want a rescue one? Astral are great, i run a absolute boomber one made by a company called Hydraulics based out of NZ. its one of the best put together PFD i have had. ( i had a Astral and a Kokatat before) its got a large front pocket that is Kevlar lined so it is hard to tear. inside is all compartmented and has a external sheath for a rescue knife. cant talk this product up enough. will try and attach photo.

Seems like one hell of a PFD! Is that the River Pro? I hate to pinch pennies when it comes to saftey but I'm hitting the budget wall on this one too. Tryin to keep it under $150..The Gear is adding up quick. Pretty much between Astral aquavest 200 , Astral Tempo 200, or the Lotus Sherman.

Thats all good mate

this is the kind of stuff you pick up over a few years. Astral Aquavest 200 is a good PFD plenty of storage and good up thrust. not sure of the others. what are you intending to do. idealy a full blown rescue vest is the way to go but if you are going to be doing park and play then you could go for something a lot cheeper. at the end of the day the only things i wouldn't skimp on is safety stuff. i'd go for a cheeper paddle or spray deck and spend good for a helmet and PFD. i had my ass handed to me the other day and put some wicked dints and shit in my Sweet helmet (also broke three teeth but hey) and would hate to have done it in a cheep helmet like some of the ones i have seen people run rivers in.

Ausykayaker,

I am a beginner and have been learning with borrowed gear(outdated). Do you think as a beginner I would be able to put a full blown rescue vest to use? I assume it will be a while before I'm skilled enough to pull all that off. I will be river runninng mostly.

I did buy the WRSI current helmet(plastic) for 69.99...hope that wasn't a huge mistake, its comfortable and looks sharp, but in the situation you discribed, well....you've got me thinking.

I'm ugly enough without losing three front teeth!!!! Can't really see paddling with the facemask though:laugh:

WiseBlood wrote:

Do you think as a beginner I would be able to put a full blown rescue vest to use? I assume it will be a while before I'm skilled enough to pull all that off. I will be river runninng mostly.

A rescue vest is ALWAYS a good idea. Unless you're just play boating. The extra flotation will float you higher and you'll get less down time swimming big rapids. Also, more protection to the body while swimming. The chest harness allows you to be clipped onto a line for bank rescues, whether you're doing the rescuing or if you are being rescued i.e. getting hoisted out a bad spot/cave etc. And also a cow's tail, should you choose to use one. These things happen and off hand I can think of two cases (one in Chile - Palguin I think) where a guy got stuck in a small cave next to the base of a drop, he consequently drowned. Yes, there were many reasons and the pair had lost their throw bag on another river but in a case like that, a chest harness would be very useful. (I'm not saying he didn't have one, I don't know) I remember reading (also on American WW) about a dude who got hoisted using a sling and when they got him to the top, he was dead. Again, a couple of other reasons but they all agreed the sling thing didn’t help his situation and his hands were so damn cold and stiff to be able to make up the sling in the first place, something like that, don’t quote me. Better to be safe than sorry. That’s what I always say..

Should have no problam with WRSI. Those guys have put a stack of research into that helmet. it was designed to withstand good hits and to be affordable. its also one of the only helmets that claim not to ride up on the forehead and expose the face more. the guy who desigend it did so after his son (i think) died from a head injury that was susstaned though his helmet riding up and him taking a impact to the head and face. The're a company that seem to be in the busness for all the right reason but only time will tell if there product does what it says. i spent $500 on my Sweet because in apparently did the same thing. i was more than a little pissed to find out that they were wrong. from what i have seen no helmet will stay low on the forehead with out the use of a chin strap to anchore it down. for what its worth though my company has just bought 25 of the WRSI to replace our existing Pro Tec helmets. so you have a good helmet mate now just get a good vest.

My sweet used to flip up on me too.. I really had to mess with the chin straps and padding to get the thing snug. You should check out the Shred Ready helmets.. pretty wicked design and they can be reversed so the bill is in the back or front. But the coolest thing about them is they have a ton of padding for a snug fit and they have a ratcheting type system that goes around the back of your noggin. So once you put the helmet on, you twist the thing in the back and you got a helmet that is super snug on your head...

It's called the Hand Of God Lock Retention System (HOG Lock)
www.shredready.com/products/hog.html

Yeah you can apparently get a set of water proof head phones for the shred ready as well. the ratchet system on the back i have on my Grivel climbing helmet to and it does make for a snug fit. Voz also have a similare design in there whitwater helmet. still don't think its going to stop them from riding up. let us know though;)

Adrian, very good point about BEING rescued! I was hoping the Aquavest was sturdy enough to be pulled by the straps. I'm torn on the pfd.


As far as the helmet goes, the WRSI doesn't ride up on me if I adjust the o brace. It felt restrictive that way, i felt like I couldn't look up with the brim riding so low on my forhead and the brace almost down to my neck. I adjusted it back to normal and it now rides up a little but feels less restrictive. It does seem like a good helmet for the money.

WiseBlood wrote:

Adrian, very good point about BEING rescued! I was hoping the Aquavest was sturdy enough to be pulled by the straps. I'm torn on the pfd.

The Aquavest actually has a loop at the bottom on the front of the vest which can be used for that purpose and for mild abseils.

You can just see the loop in this photo, under my left hand (I wasn't feeling great that day!):

No what you want is a Robson AKC protector, designed by the alpine kayak club it is a much better PFD than the astral and cost less money.

If you're in the uk you should get it from WWTCC.COM they'll give a great deal. And if out of the UK they are still worth a caal to see if thy'll do you a deal. The staff are cool and friendly.

HTH

Ausy,

What do you think of the Grivel helmet? I have considered a Grivel (Salamander?) for my caving helmet and havn't seen many reviews on it. I like the protection to the back of the head it seems to have but was worried about attching headlamps to it. TIA

Hey Wiseblood

shit sorry for the late reply. i have been away paddling for the last five weeks. i love my Grivel Salamanda its a excelent helmet for climbing and caving. i used it just a few months ago when i was at a place in Australia called Mt Buffalo. the company i work for was running some stuff there on the North face, anyway a mate and i heard about this cool little semi sumerged wet cave up at the top of the Mt. nothing to long only about 200 - 300 meters, but it was tight and like i said full of water as it was the course of a underground stream. anyway the Grivel was great its got two retainer straps for my head lamp and like i said befor it has the ratchit system for the nape of your neck. on the wow factor side it comes with a stack of Guci looking stickers and can also be fitted with a visor for when and if you get the chance to go ice climbing. by the way if you ever egt out to Aus head up there for a look its easy to find and all you need is a helmet and some thermals for the Fucking cold water. hope that helps:woohoo:

Catch ya