I'm trying to get the hang of rolling. I'm taking lessons in a pool and almost managed the screw roll last time out. With only very light support on my paddle blade from my instructor I've completed the roll but every time I try it on my own the paddle blade dives part way through the roll.

After watching the videos on exchile.com I'm convinced my problem lies with me stopping my body movement part way through the roll and concentrating on trying to heave myself out of the water with my arms. Does this sound like it could be my problem?

Another question I have after watching the various videos is - what is the difference between the "twist & slice" and the "sweep to back deck"?

Yes, you're probably right. And if you stop yourself from thinking of arm movements, body movements and hip-flick movements separately you might be a few steps ahead. It is one motion all the way through, so don't over-think it. A couple of tips that might help:

1. Keep your eyes on your right wrist (assuming you're right handed) all the way through the motion. If your head goes, your shoulders and body will follow.
2. Try adjusting the angle of your blade in the water. If you relax underwater you can try this out as much as you want (see #2)
3. If you're like most people, you want to roll up so you can breathe again. So subconsciously you're probably reaching up (leaning your head and body the wrong way) to get at that sweet air. Here's an activity you can do with a buddy/instructor to overcome that subconscious barrier. Remove the pressure on you to roll up by asking your friend to let you have one attempt then flip you up. Tell yourself that you're not going to roll up this time, but you just want to work on the technique. Treat the roll just as you would any other stroke that you're learning, accepting the fact that you'll probably not get it right the first time. You'd be surprised how often this works.
4. The mechanics of each type of roll are basically the same, so don't sweat the details. Each one requires you to place your center of mass as close as possible to the axis of rotation thereby reducing the torque required to roll up (i.e. lean back, it's easier). Each one requires a hip flick to get the boat over its edge. And finally each one requires you to get your paddle blade (or hands) out to the side.

Enjoi.

I have had the same problem, and your problem will most likely be keeping your left elbow tucked in. If you stretch it out, it will be going against the momentum. In a sense, if your left arm is out, you are high bracing, whereas if you keep your arm in, you are low bracing.

OH YES this is Chris Spelius the creator of the exchile.com video. g32turbo You have exactly figured out the problem. Your words summarize the roots of almost all problems with people learning any of the kayak rolls. "After watching the videos on exchile.com I'm convinced my problem lies with me stopping my body movement part way through the roll and concentrating on trying to heave myself out of the water with my arms. Does this sound like it could be my problem?"

OH YES THAT IS it. The intuitive desire at one point to think OK i have kind of done the technique lets get to that air...


YOU MUST Define the technique and know what it feels like when you have gone to the finishing point 100 percent. Get your body into that position when you are out of the water sitting in the kayak. Watch the videos over and over. (exchile.com under kayak school)

Remember it

Get into your kayak on your living room floor. Get into the body position. Ask a friend or look in a big mirror to see if it looks exactly like it does iin the video.

Feel it

DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES to get to that position when you are rolling in the water. And try to do it once with out even thinking of getting out of the water. JUST GET TO THAT FINAL Position as shown in the videos. Tell yourself you are going to get to the finishing point while you are still in the water. NO MATTER WHAT.

IF YOU DO THAT IT WILL WORK.


Most of the comments are pretty good in response. However, be careful many do not understand the subtle but significant differences in the different rolls...YES THERE ARE MANY COMMON threads. But the difference between the Sweep to back deck roll and the twist and slice roll are HUGE, even though it is barely seen with the eye. See the roll videos on exchile.com

Sweep to back deck: Paddle skims on the surface providing purchase as the torso sit up and back till you are leaning on the back deck then sit up and take a stroke.


Twist and Slice. The paddle slices dropping all resistance( this is key) while the body rotates to the back corner of the kayak. ROTATE to the back corner. The wrists keep the paddle slicing. This roll is not dependent on leaning back much at all. And even more amazing it is not very dependent on the traditional hip snap of the C to C roll. It is ROTATION or TWISTING and leaning slightly to the back corner of the kayak till the back elbow almost bumps into the kayak. YOUR EYES LOOK DOWN THAT SHAFT OF THE PADDLE because the entire upper body head included are twisting.

Thanks for the advice guys. No lesson in the pool last week so this Thursday is my big chance to try out your tips. I'll keep you informed of progress.

OK, the update as promised. The short version of the story is that I still can't roll.

The slightly longer version is that after last weeks pool session where I spent best part of an hour upside down in the water I felt even more confused than when I started. This week I abandoned the screw roll and tried to concentrate on the C to C roll. Starting by holding onto the side of the pool without a paddle turning the boat over and concentrating on righting the boat with my hips while keeping my head under the water:silly: . All looked good until I actually tried it with a paddle.

Next week will see one more attempt at the C to C and therefafter I think I'll just enrol on an advanced swimming course.

HMMMM,

Remember, changing your roll to a different style usually is not the magic bullet. Continuing on the one you started till you get it is the secret in most cases. I really think before you give up make sure you understand the Twist and Slice roll which is a evolved form of the screw roll. The C to C will work also but it to will have some frustrations on the way. Have you seen the roll videos numerous times on the exchile.com????? Are you rotating? Is your wrist cocking back? Do you diagonally cross the kayak? Are you letting the resistance go with the paddle because the wrist is cocking back.

Go through that check list after watching the video. If you go through the movement it will work.

chris

i tried and failed for ages when i started until a mate showed me this one way which then leads to al the other rolls. basically its just a high brace roll.do a high brace but dont brace, as in just go under in the high brace position, then reach the paddle up till its on the surface and just pull down and hip flick. as soon as youve nailed the hip flick you will be sorted. i can almost roll using nothing but hips and head! (not quite tho)

also get help! make sure you have someone helping you. have you tried the floats on the surface. use loads of floats and just pull up on them.that will give you the position then its all about practace! practace practace practice. i tried to get on the water everyday when i was learning it.

Well if you are changing to a C to C or hip flick roll stay away from the terminalogy of pull. You curve up with your body (c) to get the paddle near the surface. Resist the desire or the concept to pull yourself up. That is the kiss of death. Your C ing to the surface has given you the wind up for the hip flick. NOw just hang on to the surface as you activate the hips or curve you spine to the opposite C. Or hip snap in the other direction.

No PUlling No power from the arms. POWER IN YOUR CORE with C to C, or hip snap.

Good luck.

Power in your hips, power in your core.

NO PULLING OR Arms.


chris

exchile wrote:

Is your wrist cocking back? Are you letting the resistance go with the paddle because the wrist is cocking back.

Hi Chris,

By wrist cocking back I assume you mean the left wrist. I must admit the only thought about my wrists is cocking the right wrist forward during my set up to capsize.

Time to practice the rotation and other movements over and over again on the garage floor before my next pool session.

Cheers, Tony

Success at last. Still struggled last night in the pool until I took time out to try to "feel" what I was doing wrong. The coach was saying that I was trying to lift my head out of the water too early but I was convinced I was not doing so.

I also play golf and have been told many times that a poor shot was as a result of "lifting my head" but soon realised that this is a consequence rather than a cause of poor technique.

Consciously keeping my head down during the roll did absolutely nothing to improve my technique. Feeling that my roll consisted of 2 jerky movements, one with my hips/thighs and the other with my arms I concentrated trying to mould the whole thing into one fluid movement. By holding onto the side of the pool while "turning" the boat up with my right knee (rather than flicking it up with my hips) I found I could comfortably right the boat with very little pressure on my hands. I practiced this over and over until I could roll the kayak with the support of only 2 fingers of my right hand on the pool side.

I then took the paddle and tried to replicate this "feeling". First attempt and I righted the boat, much to my and my coaches amazement. Thinking it must have been a fluke I repeated the feat again. A third capsize and a third successful, roll all seemingly effortless, had me wondering what all the previous weeks hard work and thrashing with paddles had been about.

I'm not sure that any of the above makes sense to you all or that I could recommend this to anyone else, but it certainly worked for me .

Thanks to all of you for your advice over the past few weeks.