I am planning on going kayaking on the Nantahala this May, but will probably be paddling more similar rivers in the North Carolina mountains soon. I am looking for a good drytop or semi-drytop, and my current choice is the IR Zephyr. I have a budget of ~$150, which isn't a lot, considering how much some tops cost. I think that I will go with the neoprene gaskets instead of latex, because I don't paddle too often and don't want to have to spend time and money making sure the top works right. Any other suggestions? The only thing that I can find bad about the Zephyr is the drawstring waist, which won't be as watertight as a neoprene waistband. I have an NRS Mystery short sleeve shirt, and would that be enough for 50 degree (F) rivers?

P.S. What other gear do I need? I have a throw bag, PFD, skirt, boat, paddle, helmet, and shoes. I'm looking at hand paddles (read my previous post on breakdowns) and this top, as well as possibly a rescue knife. Anything else to consider?

cjcc wrote:

....as well as possibly a rescue knife.

NEVER paddle without a knife!

From what little I know that river is damn cold... ? I don't know.

Don't forget float bags. Never paddle without them.

There are a couple of other things you may need such as a length of tubular tape (or even a pre-sewn sling - both long enough to make a harness), prussiks, 2 karabiners, (pulleys if no one else in the party has but you could hook it without). Once you are comfortable on around class 3 I highly recommend attending a swift water rescue as all the gear in the world is useless without proper knowledge. Just always make sure you have a throw bag, knife and some float bags in your boat as the basic rescue kit. Have fun!

whisle. electrical tape and cling film! awsum stuff for cuts in the wet. it stays on too. definatly crabs and idealy a clean line tape or sling. always a knife. iv never had to use one but a mate of mine has been paddling for near on 10years and is a coach and has never had to use his untill about a week ago where he was tangled in sum rope that was submerged that some tw*t had dumped and he was stuck underwater so out came the knife and he cut himself free. you've gotta have it in ur ba so you can get at it with one hand.

I have float bags, as well as about 15 ft of webbing for our annual rappelling trip. I also have a pulley that can hold up to I think 618 lbs, and a carabiner rated for 3500 lbs. It looks like the buying list will be 1 carabiner, rescue knife, hand paddles, prussik cord, and a good whistle. For sparx, what do you mean by crabs? Also, don't forget about the dry top/semi-dry top suggestions. I have a deck bag for my rec kayak since there is no hatch, so should i just put everything into it behind my seat?

Maybe it's just me, but I always wear my knife on my PFD. In the event that you are going to use it, it is unlikely that you will: a) be in your boat. b) be in a position to pull your skirt and dig around in your boat to find it, and c) if you are pinned, you may have you us it to cut yourself out of your boat.

As for dry top/semi dry top, I have a kokatat paddling jacket with a drawstring wait and let me tell you, do no but anything with a drawcord waistband if you want to stay dry in a flip. as son as you are over water fills the top. You do stay pretty dry if you are upright and don't get worked in a hole, but otherwise it's pretty ineffective.

You may want to consider trying to find overstocked old models, as they will be cheaper. Or looking at used dry-tops. Nothing improves cold weather paddling like a good dry top, so it may be worth it to try to find a way to spend a little more and get a solid top.

You could also consider a wetsuit, they aren't as comfortable, but they are considerably cheaper and will keep off hypothermia. Plus, even a really nice, thick wetsuit top will be much cheaper than a dry top. Which would leave you with some money for pogies.

Edit: Almost forgot. For a whitewater whistle, you can't beat the Fox 40. It's pealess so it works in freezing, wet conditions, and it is loud as all hell. It's pretty much standard for the river.

Darth_GoosE wrote:

You could also consider a wetsuit, they aren't as comfortable, but they are considerably cheaper and will keep off hypothermia. Plus, even a really nice, thick wetsuit top will be much cheaper than a dry top. Which would leave you with some money for pogies.

I have the NRS Mystery Short Sleeve shirt, and I was wondering if that would be enough for some of the NC rivers like Nantahala. I definitely would keep a knife in the outside pocket on my flowter , and that would also be how I would decide which knife to get.

IIRC Nanty is dam released so the water will be about 50 F. May in NC is not very cold (at least not by my standards). In general, if the water and air temp add together to more than 100 degrees F, then you don't need a wetsuit or dry top.

From my experience it's usually between 60-80 in Mar in NC so whether your current top is enough is really going to be a matter of personal preference, and how well you tolerate cold. If it was me, I would just be wearing an underarmor shirt and my paddling jacket, unless it was in the lower 60's then I would probably break out my dry top. Of course, I'm acclimated to a colder climate so your millage may vary.

My hands and face are generally the only parts of my body that get cold (Still wearing shorts when 27 degrees!) so I will probably get the NRS Motion pogies or the Mambas. I've gone rafting in July on the Nantahala and it was freezing, but I was wearing swim trunks an a body glove rashguard with a poly shirt over it. I had the splash jacket that NOC gives you, but didn't ever put it on.

Any comments on this top? www.peakukus.com/pc-24-2-semi-long.aspx
Here's the closeout version: Semi-Long .

cjcc wrote:

I have float bags, as well as about 15 ft of webbing for our annual rappelling trip. I also have a pulley that can hold up to I think 618 lbs, and a carabiner rated for 3500 lbs. It looks like the buying list will be 1 carabiner, rescue knife, hand paddles, prussik cord, and a good whistle. For sparx, what do you mean by crabs? Also, don't forget about the dry top/semi-dry top suggestions. I have a deck bag for my rec kayak since there is no hatch, so should i just put everything into it behind my seat?

Crabs. carabeners.

As a note, the PeakUK Semi-Long is now on closeout for $49.99. I have 1 good carabiner, and a lot of aluminum ones. I guess I will be heading to the hardware store soon, because I can get one for a few dollars. Is there any difference between the carabiners NRS sells and a store like The Home Depot, because there is a big price difference. Other than easier attachment, what would be the benefits of the NRS carabiners?

P.S. I got the NRS Pilot Knife this weekend.

Biners are one thing you don't want to go cheap on. Ones you would find at Home Depot are typically 1. not very good metal; 2. not built to handle loads; 3. are very easily broken. When rope runs through biners, it creates a ton of heat---I've seen more than one cheap biner melted into--this happens over time with even the good ones, but not as quickly and they require a ton of use to get to that point. I've also seen one too many biner snap in the middle from too much load. Of course, I am coming from a climbing background and feel like there's absolutely no compromise on safety equipment--makes sense to do the same for my boating equipment as well. It's your life or your buddy's out there--why try to save a few bucks when the risks if the equipment fails are too weighty. You don't necessarily have to purchase the biners from NRS--go to a climbing/outdoor store. You'll find tons there--different varieties, as well. Please, please don't buy one from Home Depot, unless you're just planning to use it to clip a Nalgene to something or hold your keys. Hope that helps!

The one I got from Home Depot is rated for 3500 lbs, so as far as load, it should be fine. If it can support a car, I would think it could be used for a Z-Drag or something similar. There is an REI about 20 minutes away from my house, so should I see what they have there? Black Diamond has one that can hold 25 kilonewtons of strength (about 5620 lbs of force) and it is only $7.95. Carabiner .

I'd go to the REI--Black Diamond makes great biners and you'll be guaranteed that if you get a biner made for climbing, it will not only be able to handle the load capacity, but the heat generated as well. Yay for REI and it's sales! Climbing gear hardly ever goes on sale!

I love the Black Diamond Rock Lock screw gate:



I especially like the lack of that notch where the gate moves into (top right, not shown above actually as it's hidden by the gate). I find that most carabiners have that notch which catches on a lot of stuff... Not sure I'm making myself clear but I think you get the picture. Black Diamond stuff is the business. I'm a big fan!

I'm looking at buying a drytop. Whats the difference between dry and semidry?
And also as with full then drysuits if you dont let the air out of the drytop before you get in the water will it inflate?

Drytops typically have latex wrist and neck gaskets, but semi-dry tops can have neoprene wrist/neck gaskets. Semi-dry tops are also usually less expensive, and you don't have to replace neoprene gaskets like you would with latex . Some water will probably get in with a semi-dry top, but not a lot. Unless you are boating where you can easily get hypothermia if you go in the water, a semi-dry top will probably be fine. What is your budget for a drytop? Most have latex wrists and neoprene gaskets on semi-dry tops. I am getting the PeakUK Semi-Long because it has all neoprene gaskets, as well as a waist that has an inner and outer tunnel for $50.00 on their US site. The IR Zephyr is good, and the only thing that I didn't like about it was the drawstring waist that theoretically would let lots of water in, but I got an email response from their president(not a sales rep) saying that they could make it custom with a different waist. Great customer service from Immersion Research, but I had already had the order placed for the Semi-Long. Only downfall that I can see about the Semi-Long is that there are no pockets.

P.S. Adrian, the one that you have pictured only holds 24 kilonewtons... . Any ideas about the ones where you have a 90 degree turn, instead of a screw? Here's what seems to be a good example: carabiner 2 .

I personally don't like twist locks. When the spring goes, you throw the biner away. I prefer good old fashioned screw gates. It's a personal choice. I've paddled some very heavily silted rivers (as most in SA are) and the sand and grit has not affected the twisting mechanism. I also don't look at the breaking strain of a carabiner. A locking HMS biner for climbing is plenty strong for any kayaking rescue situation. Your rope WILL break before the biner does, unless you just HAPPEN to paddle with a 9 or 10mm rope in your boat, and I'm sure you don't...

Good point. I guess that I will be heading to REI soon. What about the Black Diamond Quicksilver? Quicksilver Screwgate

I dont really have a budget for one.. but wouldnt really bother with more than 300 euro. I was looking at the peak uk semi dry freeride...??

Good point. I guess that I will be heading to REI soon. What about the Black Diamond Quicksilver? Quicksilver Screwgate

That's a great biner, but is sometimes a bit small. For z-drags and such it should be okay as you're not stuffing a whole lot into the mouth of the biner. The BD Rockloc Screwgate is a similar biner, but a bit larger--without scrolling down, I think Adrian actually had a pic of it if I remember rightly. It's also a great choice and guaranteed to be big enough if you need it to be for some reason. REI should have it as well--it's only a couple bucks more than the Quicksilver.

What is the average water temp. where you paddle? If it is below 50, you will probably want to go with all latex gaskets. If you layer, you would probably be fine. I think that I will wear my body glove rashguard, NRS Mystery short sleeve, and the PeakUK Semi-Long for any cold rivers that I paddle. Fortunately, the USNWC is only about 1/2 hour away from my house, and the water is near the 80s in the summer. Now, it is in the 40s, so I won't be paddling WW for a few months. Also, 300 Euros is a pretty good amount for a drytop. The Kokatat Rogue is 330 Euros at I-Canoe, and the PeakUK Creek jacket is about 275 Euros. Adrian has the Rogue and seems to love it, but we don't hear too much about PeakUK, especially in the states. As for the Freeride, here is a review: Freeride . Here's a few other posts: 1 2 3 4 5 .

Well its cold here in ireland but its not too cold i have a pretty crappy cag at the moment and it has done me in the same rivers for the past three years but in saying that the weather has changes hugely since last year. Its the coldest winter we've ever had that i can remember so might have to put some thought into getting some warm gear.

I would go with the Nookie Zone (#5). It is made to be very dry without latex gaskets. That being said, how tall are you? If you think that you will continue growing, don't spend $300 on a drytop that you will outgrow in a year.

cjcc wrote:

I would go with the Nookie Zone (#5). It is made to be very dry without latex gaskets.

the nookie zone is not a good drytop. i had one and used it about 3 times before the neoprene seals broke. also the stitching comes undone very quickly

Sorry For hijacking this post.

Im probably going to grow a bit more but not much ...

Saz wrote:

Sorry For hijacking this post.

Im probably going to grow a bit more but not much ...

Don't worry about it:) . Another option is the PeakUK Combi. It's not too expensive, but it is a pretty innovative jacket. Also, for Bodyglove, did you follow up with Nookie Gear? That sounds like it could be covered under warranty, unless your wrists were stretching out the gaskets to a breaking point.

P.S. Here's a good link from Boatertalk: drytops

cjcc wrote:

Also, for Bodyglove, did you follow up with Nookie Gear? That sounds like it could be covered under warranty, unless your wrists were stretching out the gaskets to a breaking point.

yeah it went back under warranty. but nookie products seem to have a bit of an issue with quality. i know quite a few people that have had problems with nookie cags

If it's not very good quality, then they are definitely overcharging in the US ($310 for the Zone). I would probably prefer to get the Peak UK Creek jacket over the Nookie considering the price. IR makes good jackets too.

You might like to throw some 125mm webbing slings and a few carabiners and 25mm rescue pulleys into the old kit bag as part of your pin kit, always nice to be able to build a z drag when you need it.