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Hand Rolling ??
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Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 11 months ago #24613

i bought a bliss stick SCUD a wee while ago ,been practicing my rolling technique in a local pool the last few days & its helped immensley , i'm eager to learn hand rolling it - but don't seem to have enough hand pressure to flip it over or even get it close to snapping my hips .

any suggestions ???

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 11 months ago #24616

See some videos in youtube, there are a lot of helpfull videos... the secret of the hand roll insn't in your hands but in your hips. By watching the videos you can see that are different technique, for me the easier is to put the head backward, but you can do it qith your head forward like in this video:




I'm sorry for my english, I'm from Brazil and still learning.

kind regards
Bruno

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 10 months ago #24627

cheers mate ,

can't stop watchn them all now , so many different ways . hit the local pool today & am curious

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 10 months ago #24629

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You may want to try hand paddles to get an idea of hand position. This may also give more confidence, but the main part is muscle memory, and you wouldn't have as steep of a learning curve. I am heading to a pool in less than a month with hand paddles, as they are my spare paddle.

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 10 months ago #24630

what are hand padels ? are they like a swimming aid for 1st time swimmers or something ? I got use a small local pool near me othe r westcoast & been using it the last 3 days then hitting the surf here on the westcoast - been awesome . ecpecially when theres people around who are more expereincced than yourself , you can always watch how they do it , gives you more confidence being around people who are better thsn you , you get out of your comfort zone & eager to push your boudrys furhter .

Anyone on this site who on the westcoast of the sth island , New Zealand ? start lookn for pladdling buddys

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 10 months ago #24631

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riveraholic.com/

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 10 months ago #24638

try get a copy of EJ's rolling DVD it explains it very well and gives good tips
good luck - I still battle with a paddle never mind without one

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 10 months ago #24659

the secret is to just have a really bomproof roll.
when you have that you then just remove the paddle...
:)

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 10 months ago #24660

Lots of things that can aide in hand rolling...

Hand Paddles are a great starter.

handpickedpaddles.com/hand_paddles

Another way that can help is this,

Get a kick board from the pool (Or a PFD will work). Work on your hip snap on the edge of the pool. When you are using little of the pool to help roll up then use a your pfd instead of the pool edge... The key is learning good technique and muscle memory

Once you are rolling with the pfd then take out something smaller (flip flops work well) and proceed until youre hand rolling


....

On a side note, get some hand paddles anyway, they make your local runs more challenging and teach you better boat handling

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 10 months ago #24671

WOW- amazing advice , thanx heaps .

how do u strengthen the muscles you use to snap the roll into action ??, one side of my body is distinctly weaker or less flex than the other , sorta want to keep it balanced & not be so much stronger on one side than the other - just in case of emergency , etc my strong side is fairly close to hand rolling while the other is no where near it & really struggle to roll on that side normally when theres big waves /turbulent water around .

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 10 months ago #24683

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I think that there was an article on paddling.net that said to use an exercise ball, but you could also do crunches/sit ups, and try to target the obliques (side abs) instead of just the central abs. How are you on flat water? If you are close on your weak side, or about the same as your strong side, it is just a mental problem, but try what I mentioned. Also, flexibility is just as important as strength, so yoga couldn't hurt (although I probably wouldn't be caught dead taking yoga).

For your post in the future, just keep practicing both sides and try to use it on a gentle rapid with no hazards, but it may even help if you don't try your strong side, because you will still be dependent on it. You could wet exit, but that would just lower your confidence even more, but I would suggest buying/making hand paddles, and you could keep shaving them down until they are roughly the size of your hand, and try bare-handed again.

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 10 months ago #24685

on my weak side on flat water , no problems - some of it is probabably mental as i prefer 1 side . i know my left side is really strong & generally use it alot if turbulent waters , high seas ( surfing ) , etc

thanx for your opinion/s anyway , helped heaps . loooked up those hand paddle things , deffinatelly looks challenging down a creek - be interesting the 1st time out -lol

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 8 months ago #25912

i'm new to white water and i accidently did a hand roll on flatwater. i was trying to streghten my hip flick by capsising and using the paddle to boost my self up but i lost the paddle and didn't want to come out so i tossed and turned looking for the paddle and i accidently came up. i asked more expierianced paddlers to help with technique and now i find my hand roll very reliable.

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 7 months ago #25923

I know plenty of people who learn to hand roll before they learn to roll properly, because they had awesome hip flicks, but couldn't control the paddle properly. most of them where very young (and flexible) though.

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 7 months ago #25926

I am involved in running pool sessions for beginners, and quite frequently see a kid hand roll before they can paddle roll. I think with children, having less upper body mass means that once they have developed a good hip flick from support strokes and rescues they find hand rolling easy and get confused with a paddle.

As for hand paddles, I know a lot of people have found them useful, but I tried and really didn't like it; I kept pulling myself back under with them when I had effectively completed the roll and would have been up if I hadn't work them. When I ditched them and just used my hands I had much more success (I still can't fully handroll my playboat, but I'm getting there!)

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 7 months ago #25947

yeah i guess so i'm 16 and i'm able to do a roll (with a paddle) a back deck roll and a hand roll as i am new to kayaking i'm quite ignorant but i've been told that i have a good hip flick.so i guess i might as well use it.

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 7 months ago #25965

I just managed a combat hand roll (the paddle got stuck between two rocks when i was upside down) the trick is to be laying almost flat on you back deck when you come up. when rolling with a paddle i don't lay that far back.

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 7 months ago #25973

yeah i think i would agree but i do what i think of as a paddleless c to c roll. i also think the hand position matters allot. i found that the normal method of have your strong hand lead and the other hand to work as a second blast to be do-able but i find that joining my to hands together by the thumbs to make a blade nearly as big as a paddle blade to be easy to execute and way more reliable

i don't know if this will help but its what i do and it seems to work well so good look

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 6 months ago #26731

The way I tend to do it is by using mostly hips and momentum. I also thought that the best way to get a solid roll, hand roll or whatever other kind of roll is that you have to be comfortable underneath the water. I usually flip over and just chill for 5 to ten seconds, then I get ready i put my hands directly above my head, and when I am ready I push my hands to about 45 degrees to the left, as well as lift my left hip up, and with that then quickly push my hands right back over to the right side of my boat and with a massive flick of the hips I lean back and as soon as I feel balanced enough I sit up. That was a handy way of learning, and now that I have practiced long long hours in the lake I can do it practically with thinking about it!
just remember PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT! :laugh:

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 6 months ago #26735

it's strange but i can do back deck hand rolls about 8/10 times biut a hand roll 4/10 times. in answer to the forum i agree with with jeffcook

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 6 months ago #26736

Ya,
"the palm paddler" i dont think that its so strange that you can get back deck hand rolls more often, I have personally never tried one, but now im looking forward to getting out there and trying it! as far as why i think you can get them more often plays back to what I was saying before about momentum, if you have more momentum then theres a way better chance that you will make it back up, i think that also you probably have a good hip flick which helps with everything!

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 6 months ago #26754

I am the same! I came from a swimming background and found the hand roll very easy (with no water in the kayak) and was struggling with a sweep roll for a while. Then i discovered i could lean back and press on the paddle and come up with a paddle in one hand. Trouble is this was not doing my sweep roll any favours as i got into a bad habbit of going on the back deck every time I flip. I forced myself to get my sweep roll better and lean forward to set up for it.
make sure you do have a bombproof roll before learning a hand roll to avoid my mistake.

And yes I do have an unbeleivable hip snap they tell me (cyclists legs maybe??)

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 6 months ago #26770

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As stated by most, the hip flick is crutial as with all rolls. Also don't forget your head! if you try to get you head out before your body you will struggle, keep your head down and looking into the water. Other good rolling dvd is the rolling a kayak dvd from Heliconia Press/ken whiting.
I hand paddle a lot and can hand roll very well (gr4 current).
As soon as you get your hand roll sorted try and handpaddle a bit on easy rapids and also if you are playboatin at a friendly spot. You will be amazed at how this will improve your overall feeling for watermovement as you will be using your hips more to control your kayaks edges because you do not have the paddle to help.

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 5 months ago #26965

when i hand roll i don't use the conventional technique. i use a double pump method. instead of using two hands at the same time i put one on the water surface and the other just under it, you then pull down with the first hand and when you fell it is losing effect you pull with the second hand. leaning on the back deck will help a lot, and the hipsnap needs to be good.

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Re:Hand Rolling ?? 16 years 5 months ago #26966

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H20allergic wrote:

when i hand roll i don't use the conventional technique. i use a double pump method. instead of using two hands at the same time i put one on the water surface and the other just under it, you then pull down with the first hand and when you fell it is losing effect you pull with the second hand. leaning on the back deck will help a lot, and the hipsnap needs to be good.


That's actually what Ken Whiting does as well, and I guess that it is more forgiving and gives a bit more time for the roll. www.paddling.net/guidelines/showArticle.html?222

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