Hey!
I wanted to ask anyone who's had warranty cases to speak up about their experiences with different manufacturers.
I've personally owned 3 kayaks and all I've made claims on all 3 I'm a walking bad-luck-machine when it comes to boats.

My oldest boat was a Robson Roadster bought in April 2007. This year in July it got a hole in it while paddling on low volume class 2. It wasn't used all that much, maybe 25 paddling days in total, nothing past class 3+, and I swam maybe twice, the boat never leaving our sight and never receiving extreme abuse (ok it has scratches on the cockpit rim, but nothing deep or drastic).
We took a hard look at the hole, it's not scratch related - round and I can put my smallest finger through it. The hole is under the seat, the plastic seems ridiculously thin! We took it to the dealer and wanted to make a warranty claim because of the thin bottom of the boat, the fact that it got a hole after so little use in such tame conditions, etc. We took another Roadster, much older, to compare the wear and thickness of the plastic. The dealer is reluctant to send it to Robson, convincing us that there is no way that they'll honor the warranty on a boat that has been in a swim situation.

Is that not ridiculous? When one paddles, one can't expect never to swim! and it should be reflected as normal use conditions, at least to some extent. After all, we're not talking about extreme pins in class 5/6 creeks. In fact the hole got busted during normal paddling! Using some scratches on the cockpit rim as an excuse to refuse accepting a claim is unfair practice IMHO. We stuck to our guns, we'll see what Robson will say...

I also have 2 Fluid boats and ran into problems with both. I won't really go into detail on the exact circumstances, but rather on the procedure and atmosphere:
Small problems with outfitting breaking - replacement parts shipped to me at no extra cost (did take some time, though).
Big problems - holes in the hull (Solo on the river, Nemesis due to being from a small badly manufactured batch)- replacement boats, no extra cost!
And all this by email, seeing as I bought the boats in the UK but live in Poland, so couldn't take the "dealer" route. I just sent pictures of the problems b e-mail to the dealer (later correspondence switched to the distributor and later Celliers himself) along with an honest account of what happened and got back solid answers. One claim was problematic as I had lost sight of my Solo after a swim (don't get me wrong - I don't swim that often ), but in the end after further explanations of what the river was like, they are replacing it as well. The whole experience is tuned towards making the customer happy (even when they didn't want to replace the solo, they sent a free replacement center pillar and offered a discount on a new boat) and is very personal and direct. Can't really call it a pleasure - after all, there was drama involved , but I have great respect for the way the company handled it.

What do you guys think? Where is the line between bad manufacturing and extreme use? What should we absolutely expect/demand whitewater kayaks to handle? After all, if they break with us inside, or leave us stranded somewhere, our health or lives could be on the line...

John

PS I know - I've broken every boat I've owned... :/ bad juju...

If the boat is gouged from misuse like seal launching down a gravel parking lot into the river, then you don't really have a case. Same goes for if you have constant pitons in a playboatt not made to take that abuse, or if you break a boat outside of the water, like leaving it outside in the middle of the summer, and it oilcans. It all really depends on the situation, and yours with the Robson is inexcusable, and if you haven't had it resolved yet, contact the Better Business Bureau and file a complaint with the dealer, or directly email Robson with what has happened with the BBB receiving a copy to make sure that some action is taken. Just a hint of advice - get a Prijon or Eskimo! They are the most durable boats, and if you can break one, then you need to seriously consider what you're doing.

The grade/danger/difficulty of a given river/rapid makes no difference. You can set up a boat broadside against a tree/rock and bend it in half in a 'class 1 rapid with just fast(ish) moving water.... Kayaking is a sport that happens in a dangerous environment. While boats are strong these days, you cannot expect miracles. You can't expect your climing rope to be fine after a long fall on a route, or your motorcross bike to be fine after a big crash. Everything breaks, including bodies... Part of the game.

Most (hopefully) manufacturers will look into your boat and determine whether or not it was a manufacturing error or just plain bad luck/abuse. In Fluid's case, they have a small sample of plastic from every single boat they ever made for quality purposes. While the strictest measures are taken to ensure quality of course the odd error does seep through as nothing in life is perfect, as we know.

To me, it sounds like Robson should replace the boat or fix it at no cost and perhaps give you a big discount on your next purchase - I don't know. Your dealer doesn't sound optimistic. But I can understand his position too. I helped a mate run a kayak shop for a while last year and a paddle manufacturer wanted nothing to do with us with serious construction errors which resulted in breakages. Sometimes it's not easy being the dealer either... Especially when your suppliers don't back you up! So one learns..

I've broken 2 Wave Sport Big EZ's in the exact same place (at the back left seat bolt), and BOTH times the boat was replaced with a brand new one straight away. That was awesome service! So well done to them. The third one looked like it was on it's way down the same road so I sold it and got the ZG54 which I was pretty happy with. Then I also bought the EZG60 and while the boat itself is very good I managed to get a huge gouge on the bottom that also dented the boat in. Hot water/sun didn't help. I sold the boat shortly afterwards and when looking to replace my creeker I was lucky enough to get a sponsorhip with Fluid and have never had any problems since. I now own 5 Fluid boats and no issues with any of them.

I can mention several other less than desirable stories about Riot, especially with their relationships with dealers but that would only reflect poorly on me. Threads like these can be damaging to manufacturers.. . Just ask around and you'll soon get some info on what goes for what in the industry. Even if I wasn't sponsored by Fluid, I would still honestly say that they have had very few boat issues and have always solved the problems quickly and with a minimum of fuss. In my limited experience, Wave Sport too. I just don't trust their plastic. Just my 2 cents.

It isn't my intent to bash any manufacturer and I understand that boats can break regardless of whether they're new or old depending on the specifics of the "incident". Lack of respect for gear is also a no-brainer

However in my cases these were moot points, I know what the boats went through and how they were treated.

What I want to address is what we can expect from the limited warranties we're offered for our gear and I'm interested in learning about other peoples experiences. We can avoid using manufacturers names in future

I was stunned at the theory that the boat having scratches on the cockpit voids the warranty. I understand that a kayak swimming alone down a river takes on water and this makes any impact it suffers worse, but as you said - the hole should be inspected anyway. If I weren't suspicious about the manufacturing quality I wouldn't be fighting my dealer to have him at least contact the manufacturer. My problem is actually with the dismissive attitude of my dealer :/

JanCapinski wrote:

I was stunned at the theory that the boat having scratches on the cockpit voids the warranty. I understand that a kayak swimming alone down a river takes on water and this makes any impact it suffers worse, but as you said - the hole should be inspected anyway. If I weren't suspicious about the manufacturing quality I wouldn't be fighting my dealer to have him at least contact the manufacturer. My problem is actually with the dismissive attitude of my dealer :/

Yes that doesn't sound right. Perhaps you should contact the manufacturer and explain the situation with the boat and the dealer. I really hope you come right!!! Sometimes one has the bang ones head to learn... I've done that several times, of course!

Powodzenia!