I'm in the middle of editing our new film Dream Result, and I just wanted to ask the kayakers out there. What is your favorite type of paddling film? Documentary? Pure paddle porn? I feel like a balance is good, but what is the overall consensus?

-Rush Sturges

Rush, i'm about to buy one movie from steve fisher, and i have found myself divided betwen what i want to see in a kayak movie. I think i'm gona go for the "black book", because of the very simple issue that is a bit of everything. Well, because its in a very good price, I will buy also your "Africa Revolutions", wich I think that follows the same idea of movie. Still, i'm speaking from what i've seen in trailers, and avaliating "Dream Result" by the trailer... I think I'm gona have a heart stroke when i watch full movie. What i love on it? the power of the waters... so i think hardcore is what i like.

Cheers from Portugal

João Barbosa (Joca)

I agree that a balance is good--love the paddle porn and documentary, but they both need to be broken up. Together, they make a great pairing. Besides, I like to know about the paddlers and the area--not just a quick flash of the name and area. It's much more enjoyable to get the background info. Good luck!

Balance is good for sure.

Show more beatings too. Far to many movies cut as the dude is about to get beat down This also makes people think that running that stuff is risk free, not always, but sometimes, I think.

Good music is vital. Too many DVD's fail on this aspect. I guess it's hard to get great stuff at good prices or free...

DVD's like Black Book and One World I think are really awesome. Weyhakin was also really fantastic in my opinion

João - Africa Revolutions is really awesome too, get both of them. You can never have enough. My only gripe, too short. So Rush, try to make this one 45 to 60 minutes

Good luck, and get better soon

I'll go with the documentary style as well, similar to the format of the Green Race Movie. I tried to watch Stakeout, which isn't very long, but got bored after seeing the same thing over and over. Maybe a mix of the Dream Result footage and some tips on river strategies similar to Shane's Steep Creeking essentials video. The preview with Palouse looked pretty good imo.

Not to much talking please, just ultimate kayak-action, that keeps you on the edge of your seat when watching!! All of this surrounded by great music.
Please let my plasmasceen and the surroundsystem explode!!

More creeking/riverrunning than playboating.

Mix it up with some quality music. For me, talking is ok, in order to explain something that happened or is about to happen. Select the music with care.

Adrian mentioned Wehyakin and I agree with him. Anything with Icelandic whitewater in it gets thumbs up

I think a documentary/creeking style is a better way. How much kayak porn can you watch? In all reallity it is all the same. Why pay the price of a new dvd to see the same party tricks you can see on a 2 buck closeout vhs?

I would like to see more about the "getting there" aspect of trips. I have paddled in quite a few out of the way places and the people you meet along the way and the reality of life on the road are some of the best and worst times.

Also agree with Adrian on showing more of the no so great lines. I know they happen, although I now know when to put down the camera and grab a throw bag.....sorry Ryan! hehehe

Good luck with the new film

Hey Adrian, did you ever get a copy of Dhud Kosi from Manby?

t

Thanks for the insight guys... Really appreciated. The one thing i've learned after making kayak films for almost 8 years now is you can't please everyone! However, I agree a balance is crucial. I'm feeling really good about where Dream Result is at and I hope people like it. I agree on carnage and showing the bad lines as well. People always ask, "how come you don't show more of the carnage?" Believe me, if I have carnage, it will go in the movie! Lately people are just getting really good at being on point all the time. I film guys like Evan Garcia, Steve Fisher, Andrew Holcombe, etc who literally rarely ever have a crash. I don't mean this to sound cocky at all, but truly with each film there is less carnage. (Don't get me wrong we have some SAVAGE crashes in this new one)

Anyway all the input is taken into consideration. I'm going to TRY for a 38-40 minute video on Dream Result. I agree 30 minutes is a bit short, but then you get lots of people who start to complain about length when you go over 40.

ALSO another question. If Dream Result was available for download would you rather download it, or get the DVD? What is the fairest price for a kayak video? (take into consideration I have never made money off any of my films, only broken even)

Thanks guys!

Rush

Wow, the longer the DVD, the better, I think. I guess everyones different

I would prefer to buy it, rather than download.

Terry, I never got a copy, never asked

Hey Rush, would rather buy a copy also.

Hey Adrian.....Have an extra VHS format I can send you if you get me an address.

Prefer to buy it in stead of downloading.

I would love to see Dream Result in High Definition, but I don't think you're planing to put it on a BR Disc aren't you?

Hey Rush,

Will there be anything from Iceland in the film?

Saw the trailer and recognized some places.

I'd have to say my favourite kayak DVD is Black Book. I think what I liked is that it was a mix of documentary/paddle porn. It wasn't just showing kayaking, but drew you in with the talking segments. Also the actual action was full on and had good river running/creeking and playboating.

I've also really loved your past video's, however I've always felt they are far too short! Also I've noticed in some DVD's you've had some of the same footage from previous video's. So my suggestion is, make it longer, and put in only new footage. To buy in AU it usually costs around $60, which works out at about $2 per minute of kayak action, which isn't good value for money

I'd prefer to buy a DVD than download (also agree with above, would love it in HD! Maybe should look at filming in HD for next video if your not already?).

You said that some people complain when it gets over 40mins or so. You've catered for them in your previous video's, so maybe its time to cater for others who want something longer this time? Or maybe you could say, make a 45min feature film, and leave out a carnage section or some other sections. Then make some good quality 'extras' to add to the DVD. Have a 10-15min segment of the carnage, maybe have a paddler talking about his major beat down. That way the feature film is only 45mins, but theres still maybe over 1hr of top quality footage on the DVD. Personally I want at least 1hr of good footage from a kayaking DVD.

Sweet thanks for the input. Appreciate it... I'm trying to get this film to the 40 minute mark. My standards are generally quality over quantity... I have to admit to create a quality film in under a year with limited budget, limited equipment, and now doing a mostly original soundtrack is a major challenge. I'm trying to reach the expectations of the viewers but you can't please everyone!

As far as pricing goes that's perfectly understandable. $60 is ridiculous! But that's not really our fault... The distributor sells to a distributor, who sells to a distributor, and by the time it gets to Aussie the price is way ridiculous...

That's why this project will have a $10 download option or $20 DVD purchase off the website...

In regards to recycled footage in my old movies i've never recycled a shot in my life! Trust me that is something I can't stand in videos! I also hate it when videos show footage in the intro, and then repeat it later in the film...

(the only thing I could think of is maybe in Dynasty where on the Xtras we had a "Best Of Carnage" from the past few years before...)

Anyway all good thanks the input is noted! Cheers,

Rush

I would mostly like to buy the DVD. When buying a DVD I would also rather buy it directly from you, and not paying a distributer that payed a distributer.... and the you get 1% of the selling price.

I look forward to seeing the movie. The trailer looks good and the stories I have heard from the making off sound even better
Jon

I would be happy with a download-you get it quicker, there's no shipping & you can always burn your own DVD for a hard copy. You could also supply pdfs with background info, pictures, etc.

As far as content is concerned: what I miss in most kayak movies is good background material setting the scene and giving a context to what's actually being run. This could take the form of someone explaining how they picked a line, showing more of the lead-in or the recovery when paddling a hard spot, and also definitely showing how things can go wrong and how it is dealt with (by the paddler & also the team).

This also applies to visual editing: I don't like too many quick cuts where you lose track of what's going on, time-wise. Cloee-ups, slow motion, even graphics could all be used to flesh out what the paddler on screen is actually doing.

We've all seen so much outrageous stuff in kayak movies- what's called kayak porn- it kind of leaves me cold now. I want to understand the guy on screen and how he managed to do (or mess up!!) what he (or she) is attempting. I don't think the entertainment value would suffer at all.

I recently watched "DUDH KOSI-RELENTLESS RIVER OF EVEREST" again (the descent of Duhd Khosi in the 1970s). That is a great movie, paddling-wise, and documentary-wise too. There's a story in it. BTW, Dave Manby has had it remastered and sells it from his web page.

I subscribe to Kayak Session and checked out the link to Dream Result/Adrenaline Rush on my Space. It looks fabulous- I want it !!!

One more thing: IMO there should be more dynamics in editing and in particular in music for a good film. I'm a musician who composes for film, BTW. Olaf Obsommer's movies are good for this. He has some chilly music, some action/suspense, and often some wacky /lighthearted stuff too. Just Metal/Rock or HipHop/Rap for a soundtrack gets boring really quickly. I liked the dramatic "cinema=style" score on the Dream Result trailer, but more than a few minutes of that would be too much as well. Good to hear something different on a Kayak movie though.

ok.....thanks for reading

best

RR

rikki rivett wrote:

As far as content is concerned: what I miss in most kayak movies is good background material setting the scene and giving a context to what's actually being run. This could take the form of someone explaining how they picked a line, showing more of the lead-in or the recovery when paddling a hard spot, and also definitely showing how things can go wrong and how it is dealt with (by the paddler & also the team).

For sure!

It seems to me that most movies don't really capture the experience very well. Clips of huge drops are entertaining for a couple minutes, but after a while you get desensitized and they seem less and less impressive. I would much rather hear more of the story behind each line so that I can get a better feel of the decision making, the anticipation, and the sense of achievement (or failure...) that comes with what these paddlers are doing.