Id just like to thank the guy who wrote that thing about how your boat doessnt really matter as long as it fits and is relatively new. Its really easy to get caught up in the different designs and hype, and its nice to get it all back in prspective. I gues ill turn this into a poll. barring the differences between styles of boats i.e. creekers playboats etc, and the old school new school playboat thing, does it matter that much what boat your in as long as the volume works for your size?

yes, IF it fits your body

BUT, it also has to fit your ability, not just your current ability, but your POTENTIAL ability, and you need a good boat to do that. That is exactly why there is so much "hype" as you call it about design. But through the hype there actually IS truth, and a continuing discourse about better designs.

I [color=cyan:ac4ed3471a]understand[/color:ac4ed3471a] that people are tired of a dozen kayak companies giving them the hard sell all the time.
I also understand that the larger companies are afraid to do much that is largely different from each other for fear of losing market share and not being able to pay their huge stable of employees.

If you [color=cyan:ac4ed3471a]think[/color:ac4ed3471a], for even one moment, that Liquid Logic boats are anywhere near similar to DragoRossi boats, then you obviously have not tried them both!!! The two designers could not have more different playboats within the same size range. DragoRossi and LL are the epitome of CARVE and ASS BOUNCING.

The compromises in between are, admittedly, annoying and confusing.

I, personally, really really dislike LL playboats and totally love DR boats. But my passionate dislike really reflects my respect for the LL just as much as my obvious love is, well, obvious for DragoRossi.

It's the Confluence boats that I'm so ambivalent about, and I think that really many other people are too. Thus, the growing apathy that has started this survey.
It's quite easy to explain. If bank of Bahrain has a holding company that owns Dagger, WaveSport, Perception, just how different can you expect that boats to be when you have shared resources and a company wide directive to just find a way to make money. These guys have the power to convince people that their boats are different, because they have the cash to place ads in non-whitewater media, make effective cross-marketing relationships, and influenct those who are not really paying close attention.

There are loads of smaller companies that I have not mentioned, but lots of them react to the perceived success of the bland "me too" market and think that is the way things are done.

So, yea, you're right. There ARE lots of boats that are the same, and must be sold almost exclusivly on how warm and fuzzy the outfitting makes you feel in the showroom. But I beg you to really open your eyes and read between the lines, as well as consider the source of any information you get.

You'll get direct info from DragoRossi, Corran, me, as well as fairly direct info from LL and Shane. That's easy to have a knee-jerk reaction to that kind of stuff. But the really really really sneaky thing that happens is the way several other companies do it. The marketing guy sets the company rhetoric. The paid pro athlete memorizes some version of it. A fan of the pro repeats it. Someone meets the pro and is impressed by how nice he is, so believes the rhetoric. Then that third party posts it on the internet as gospel. Their friends trust them, so they believe the rhetoric, and discuss it, repeat it and believe it some more.

This post will anger both those who have an interest in selling boats, and those who have been bamboozled. But those who are tired of the "hype" and are disheartened, but just know, deep in your heart, that through all of the sameness, somewhere, there are a small group of designs that actually do stand out from the pack.

ouch to big of words

point taken. i hope we all apreciate what corran is trying to due with draggorossi and pushing the limit of kayak possibilites, he did it once, lets hope he can do it again. Ive never tried a DR boat but they look intriguing.