I am a guide on a class 3 river. I have been in rafts and a lot of SOT's, but I want to get into hard boat and have more fun. I am looking for something that I can use on a regular basis in class 1-3 whitewater. I would rather it not be too slow, but I also want to be able to learn to play and roll as much as possible. I have been looking around and it seems like the Lil Joe or the Diesel may fit this need. I am 5'8", 120lbs, with a 30" inseam. Any input or suggestions is appreciated.

You should demo the Jackson Fun series. They will fit your requirements.

A diesel is an eccellent boat i recomend that. Ive even seen it cartwheeled before. Although that was by a fat man. Just demo all you can.

Scott

You may want to take a step towards a boat that has a little more play capability than the Diesel. The EZ series from Wavesport are good boats that you can definitly play in but retain enough volume that you can be the "safety" boater for a group of intermediate paddlers. What type of paddling do you want to do? Do you want to be a safety kayaker for your job in the same boat. With a little more info someone could probably help you into the right category of boat.

the fun series is definetly a good but, stable, but still a sweet playboat and roller

I think you should check out the jackson fun series, I learned on one and they're very easy to paddle and fun to play with

I was first looking at the EZ, and was told it is just too old of a design. So then I was looking at the EZG, which is supposed to be a river/play boat. I am also looking at the trigger and the cr125.

I am big into park and pipe on the snow, so my goal when getting into this sport was to play. I have limited funds right now so I can only afford one boat. That boat would be used to guide out of on a daily basis, but I would need it to be able to let me start to play more as well.



[quote:286812fe85="taliesin38"]You may want to take a step towards a boat that has a little more play capability than the Diesel. The EZ series from Wavesport are good boats that you can definitly play in but retain enough volume that you can be the "safety" boater for a group of intermediate paddlers. What type of paddling do you want to do? Do you want to be a safety kayaker for your job in the same boat. With a little more info someone could probably help you into the right category of boat. [/quote:286812fe85]

The LL Vision give it a try it is a fairly fast RR and a blanced playboat!!!!!!!

I dont think that you shoudl count out the EZ simply because it is an older boat. It still is a great playboat, and every time I go boating I see alot of them. Also, the fact that it is an older design means that you could one for a low price. There are bound to be some for sale on boatertalk.com, just click the gearswap icon. It is a great boat to learn to play in. you wont be able to loop or stuff like that, but it will be a good boat to start your kayaking career, and still a good boat out of which to guide.

[quote:21e46cd5f8="juneyman"]I dont think that you shoudl count out the EZ simply because it is an older boat. It still is a great playboat, and every time I go boating I see alot of them. Also, the fact that it is an older design means that you could one for a low price. There are bound to be some for sale on boatertalk.com, just click the gearswap icon. It is a great boat to learn to play in. you wont be able to loop or stuff like that, but it will be a good boat to start your kayaking career, and still a good boat out of which to guide.[/quote:21e46cd5f8]

Yeah don't count out the EZ series. I was out in a Super EZ today and it still played ok. I really should be in an EZ, for a more playable weight range, but all we have at the store is a Super to demo. I am also buying and EZG 50 which is a great boat to play in. My only concern, and that of my guiding friends, is that it does not have as much volume as the EZ series. Really an accomplished paddler will do just fine safety boating in this boat. You just need to realize that if you are carrying pulleys and a first aid kit and all the other junk that you will sit lower in the water and the boat will be more "playful". Another thought is looking into something like a Z boat which are going for about 649.00 new, here in Southern BC and then buying a used EZG or whatever other boat you decide on. If a Z boat is going for 649.00 new then you could probably get a screaming deal on a used one then get a good deal on a used EZG. Check to see if the company you work for has contacts with any kayak reps. Our reps just sent us a list of the used demo boats that they are getting rid of. I'm talking EZG for $550.00

[quote:03fe88d389="juneyman"] you wont be able to loop or stuff like that[/quote:03fe88d389]

Now ur talkin crap the ez is a very good boat i agree and it can be looped easily infact ej won 2002/3 in one and there were definatly several loops with and with out paddles!

Also it maes a nice river runner that plays really well! it culd be a good boat for you dont rule it out just because its an older design! try one out then make ur mind up. im paddlin the cr 125 its a great river runner needs wave or hole to get the best out of it

I stand corrected

Although there is a difference between EJ looping in a world championship level hole and a relative play beginner. Personally I'd go for one of the shorter RR boats if you can afford one: A LL crossriver, WS EZG, Daggr Juice/RX, Pyranha sub 7/0, that kind of boat. They have enough volume to hit Grade III pretty easy, but are certainly playful enough to give all the performance you need on a feature!

[quote:a20fc28b3d="Paraic"]Although there is a difference between EJ looping in a world championship level hole and a relative play beginner. Personally I'd go for one of the shorter RR boats if you can afford one: A LL crossriver, WS EZG, Daggr Juice/RX, Pyranha sub 7/0, that kind of boat. They have enough volume to hit Grade III pretty easy, but are certainly playful enough to give all the performance you need on a feature![/quote:a20fc28b3d]

You may want to look at the Dagger RX (perscription) as well. It is a good cross over boat that is a little more playful than river runner.

a dagger juice would be a good choice. they can run rivers and really easy to leran to roll. also can do a few basic freestye moves.

The juice is not a bad boat but I like the outfitting in a Wave Sport boat much more. Mind you I do like the back band adjustment for the dagger boats. Unfortunately the little blow up hip pads are neat I just replace them once a season on our rental boats (that only staff take out so mabye about 12 paddles for 6 months).

the seven o is a good river runner used to own one (the girlfriend pinched it!) has volume in the right places also a really good playboat.

The cross river is a nice boat and more river runner than playboat forget flatwater but river running its so much fum to paddle and i can fit teva gamma shoes inside without cramp and paddled it down several high vol runs in austria, swiss, germany class 3- 5 handled it al well

[quote:988ecce572="taliesin38"][quote:988ecce572="juneyman"]I dont think that you shoudl count out the EZ simply because it is an older boat. It still is a great playboat, and every time I go boating I see alot of them. Also, the fact that it is an older design means that you could one for a low price. There are bound to be some for sale on boatertalk.com, just click the gearswap icon. It is a great boat to learn to play in. you wont be able to loop or stuff like that, but it will be a good boat to start your kayaking career, and still a good boat out of which to guide.[/quote:988ecce572]

Yeah don't count out the EZ series. I was out in a Super EZ today and it still played ok. I really should be in an EZ, for a more playable weight range, but all we have at the store is a Super to demo. I am also buying and EZG 50 which is a great boat to play in. My only concern, and that of my guiding friends, is that it does not have as much volume as the EZ series. Really an accomplished paddler will do just fine safety boating in this boat. You just need to realize that if you are carrying pulleys and a first aid kit and all the other junk that you will sit lower in the water and the boat will be more "playful". Another thought is looking into something like a Z boat which are going for about 649.00 new, here in Southern BC and then buying a used EZG or whatever other boat you decide on. If a Z boat is going for 649.00 new then you could probably get a screaming deal on a used one then get a good deal on a used EZG. Check to see if the company you work for has contacts with any kayak reps. Our reps just sent us a list of the used demo boats that they are getting rid of. I'm talking EZG for $550.00[/quote:988ecce572]

I have not counted it out yet, a kayak school near me is selling one for $350. They also have the X for $300. I was not too impressed with the quality of the X, I could tell why it retails for $300 less that their other boats. I liked the fit of the EZ, although I did not paddle it.

[quote:3191b1b241="Paraic"]Although there is a difference between EJ looping in a world championship level hole and a relative play beginner. Personally I'd go for one of the shorter RR boats if you can afford one: A LL crossriver, WS EZG, Daggr Juice/RX, Pyranha sub 7/0, that kind of boat. They have enough volume to hit Grade III pretty easy, but are certainly playful enough to give all the performance you need on a feature![/quote:3191b1b241]

The ones you have listed are the ones I have been looking at lately. My shop has 2 brand new Riots for like 60% off, but they do not look like what I need... one is an Air 45 and the other is the Orbit 47.

I Recomend the Riot Inferno 54 Great RR and Play Boater and as well a good hole play.