So we have a new paddler that consistently invites themselves along on all paddling days without asking the difficulty we are planning on paddling. We usually end up running something easier and then almost always swim it. Here is the kicker, when they swim it they refuse to take any direction as far a letting go of the boat (because they are getting down stream of it with lots of rocks around), or swimming in one direction and not listening to us telling them to swim in the other direction (because there is an eddy they can get to).

So how would you deal with it. Obviously I want to run stuff that is at my paddling level for some of my weekly runs. I don't mind doing real easy stuff sometimes I just don't want to do it all the time. Second how would you deal with them not taking directions? I am tempted to tell them next time that if they don't take direction they will not paddle with me again. We usually end up paddling straight through most of the run because the person listen and misses all of the eddies.

Having just recently graduated from being a new paddler (two years down the line) to a more experienced paddler my advice would be:

1. Most new paddlers do not realise this is a dangerous sport. Having learnt on the mighty, but often forgiving Nile I did not realise this until I started paddling in Europe. Hence I suggest that you take your time and take them through all the things that potentially can go wrong, incl the often fatal outcome.
2. While I would be tempted to say that not taking direction automatically should disqualify anybody, I think the reason why he/she is missing the eddies is a lack of experience. Hence the river you are paddling is above their level and they should focus on the easier stuff/portage.

As regards the whole issue of inviting yourself along, I suggest that you tell them honestly tell them that this particular day the river will be beyond them. At the same time you should arrange for another and easier run a few days later.

This is a very serious issue! I've seen similar things happend and they allways led to some sort of accidents and injuries!!!
My advise would be:
a. Nominate a trip leader - someone experienced that will have the decision-making rights. His/her decisions R FINAL!
IMPORTANT: everybody listens to and obbeys the trip leader (not just the begginners!).
b. Safety talk and breefing before paddling (usually by the trip leader or someone he/she nominates) - to cover procedures, hazards, drills, safety, riversignes, etc. Plus the safety talk should go through paddling experience and confidencce level of EVERY paddler in the group and determine the paddling order - who leads, who goes second, third ... and who closes. Beginners should be in the middle of the group with stronger paddlers surrounding them.
c. U don't have to be polite! Remind everybody that it is not a democracy!!!
U either obbey or WALK out!!!
In general I think that U should always keep in ming how the beginner percieves your group communication. Sure, U and your mates have been paddling for a while, U know yourself and each other, U can go without nominating a trip leader and going through the same safety talk again and again... But the beginner just sees a bunch of guys that jump into their kayaks and roll down the river, no VISIBLE discipline.Catch my drift? The idea is to create a situation where EVERYONE is very aware of safety issues. And if that doesn't work - - the person doesn't belong on the river. Remember - person like that endangers the whole group!
Hope it helps, sorry it came out that long...

if you are in the uk then advertise the paddle as like a 3* and above paddle. then you have grounds to reject and a clear definition of paddling standard.

Yeah, wwdemon has the right of it. I paddle with a college club, so there's a huge variety in paddler levels. You just have to tell people to their face sometimes that the river is beyond them. Set up specific \"improvement\" runs, where you go through drills for swims and rescues on one of the easy runs you do,l and keep doing it til they get it right.

Most importantly - make sure that they know who's in charge on the water.

From the start there should be no confusion as to who is guiding/leading the trip, and on the water, their word is law, from who portages which rapids to when you stop for lunch. It can be hard, especially if the dude's a friend, and you're not a club with clearly defined captains and guides. If you're paddling a grade 3 river, and the guy hasn't got his lvl3 cert, tell him he's gonna have trouble.

If it's a person who you want to be paddling with but they don't have the skills yet, you're gonna have to teach them. If it's someone you don't know well, be firm, and outline (even exaggerate ) the dangers of the run you're doing.

the only problem with that is the 3 star is still a flat water award, the four star only means you can paddle as a group member on grade 1- 2 using waves to ferry glide the theres the big jump to five star.

Your best bet would probably push them in a direction of a kayak club or kayak instructor/ school who cater for all levels and or try practise break in break outs ferry gliding surfing waves and get him used to reading and using hand signals

Try explaining that this week you are doing a big run that they are just not good enough for .I will tell beginners I paddle with that there just not good enough for this river or that river as I would rather give them something to aim at rather than be telling there loved ones( after there gone) that you did not want to hurt there feelings .

Dave.

Practice makes perfect.

Yes I do need to take this inhand since I am the only paddler who will do it. You are right the guys I paddle with don't need a safety talk every time because we have paddled together lots and not taking this situation to task does create a danger on the river that not only includes the group I am with but any group that happens along our path.

On the positive. I have told her that she can't always paddle with us and I have arranged a time to run stuff that is appropriate for her. I still do need to talk to some of my buddies to tell them that they need to start to take some sort of responsibility for the beginner's that come along because I am tired of having it be my entire responsibility while they do whatever they want. That being said I started this when I was kinda angry because my buddy brought another friend out that I ended up watching the whole time because my buddy does not always think about the responsibility that a beginner brings with them.

I have to agree with whitewaterules here, the fact that your're having a problem with this particular beginner is less to do with said beginners lack of ability and more to do with your organisation as a group.

Before you even consider getting on a river (with or without beginners with you)you need to sit down and elect yourselves a trip leader. Then you need to identify possible areas on a river that could pose potential problems - and plan how you are going to deal with them. That is - select who is going to set up rescue, also if required who will be portaging the feature, the order in which the feature will be run etc.

It can also be very useful (if you have enough bodies) to have the people on rescue sort themselves into groups so that one person can go in and extract the swimmer and that the others can then mop up the boat and paddles etc once the swimmer is clear.

The most important thing is before you put in, ensure everyone has a clear idea of whats happening all the way down the river so that you don't end up shouting instructions while sitting in an eddy at the top of something big and scary to someone who can barely hear you above the roar of the water.


As for you beginner - sit them down and explain that they can't come on all trips, that some rivers are currently prehaps a bit beyond them and that they probably won't enjoy it. If you do end up on a river that might pose your beginner one or two problems, get one of your better paddlers to buddy up with him/her. This does not mean that the buddy is responsible for fishing the beginner out of the water every time he/she swims but rather the buddy can talk the beginner through everything - point out lines, what eddy's to hit etc.

Hope this helps...

Listen, taliesin!
If U end up dealing with the beginners and all the problems - meens U R the most responsible of your paddling group. Talk to your buddies... And U R probably way to polite and soft about it with your friends and the beginners.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that U pose a safety threat yourself... Just keep in mind that problems shouldn't repeat themselfs - that is not a good sign.
Any way, it's way too easy to sit here and type how someone else should talk to people, it something else to actually deal with the situation - a bit harder...
So take the POSITIVE advise (if U choose) - I know I've made similar mistakes, that's why I feel that I can give the advise.
Enjoy your self out there and keep safe.

Your are all right. I have taken the intiative and delt with it. I was being too soft. At the end of the day I should be less concerned if someone likes me and I should make sure that they are safe. I guess I need to work on my tact when saying that they can't come.

You know what it was easy. I told them that we need to set up some time to work on rolls and that they will be unable to come on some runs and they said ok. So we did a run tonight that was easier with some fun eddies to play with and worked on the roll in one of them. They had a great time and no one felt held up.

sweet congrads on making a compramize. more people need to learn to do that.