I'm familiar with most rolling techniques (I thought), but in one of the forums here I heard mention of a 'T-Draw' roll. It seemed to be used in a situation where one's paddle was vertical in the water. Could someone elaborate please? I've checked several technique-oriented sites, and have found nothing.

I've actually asked the same question on one of the forums, but am still waiting for an answer...

I do know of a roll where you hug one blade of your paddle close to your chest and let the rest of the paddle stick staight up in the air. Then when you capsize let the paddle float to the surface and you can then right yourself by pulling straight down on the shaft of the paddle. Note: it can only really be done with paddle of 90 degree feather. Is this what your thinking of? It has always seemed like a pretty useless skill to me.

I assumed it was when you did a draw stroke and hip snapped of that?

ronnie wrote:

I do know of a roll where you hug one blade of your paddle close to your chest and let the rest of the paddle stick staight up in the air. Then when you capsize let the paddle float to the surface and you can then right yourself by pulling straight down on the shaft of the paddle. Note: it can only really be done with paddle of 90 degree feather. Is this what your thinking of? It has always seemed like a pretty useless skill to me.

That one I call \"extented roll\" - a french instructor tauht me this roll way back. Very powerful, especially when U got worked and disoriented. It was much handier with 90 degree feather (U R right about that), but it still can be done with any paddle through some adjustment. I wouldn't say that it's useless, though I haven't resorted to this kind of roll for a long time now.
Any way, I've never heard ANY reference to a \"T-roll\", so still no clue...

Hmm I always thought that the extended roll was like a standard eskimo roll except for the fact that you placed your lower hand at the bottom of the blade nearest you, and then had your upper hand about half way down the shaft - so that it gave you more leverage.

Probably a case of one thing having several names. Ive also heard what ronnie described called a pawlata (spelling?) apparently usually used for teaching the roll. Not that much use in whitewater due to all the time wasted when moving your grip on the paddle. I thought it might be an inuit thing cos of the funny name?

That's about the same thing, only U hold one blade next to your chest/stomac - better grip for turbulent water (less chances to lo loose the paddle...). Plus back at the day when the feather used to be 90 degrees, \"hugging \" the blade would automaticaly place the upper/far blade in the appropriate angle for rolling. It is a type of a screw roll without a sweep.

The main question remains - WHAT THE \"\" IS THE T-ROLL???!!!

ronnie wrote:

Hmm I always thought that the extended roll was like a standard eskimo roll except for the fact that you placed your lower hand at the bottom of the blade nearest you, and then had your upper hand about half way down the shaft - so that it gave you more leverage.

That sound like you are describing a pilata(sp?) roll if you mean the paddle is in the same position as if it was a normal roll.

Sorry for the appallingly bad picture, this is the only roll i can think of that sort of matches the name. You basically place youre paddle so that it sticks out out of the water vertically, and do a draw stroke whilst hip flicking. It works remarkably well.

i may of course be entirely wrong

that sounds like an intersting way of rolling i will give that a try.

Sounds like a rock star roll, you come looking like this right?

dougie1 wrote:

ronnie wrote:

Hmm I always thought that the extended roll was like a standard eskimo roll except for the fact that you placed your lower hand at the bottom of the blade nearest you, and then had your upper hand about half way down the shaft - so that it gave you more leverage.

That sound like you are describing a pilata(sp?) roll if you mean the paddle is in the same position as if it was a normal roll.

Nice picture One thing, the paddle would be reasonably deep in the water and just waiting to catch the bottom or get snagged between 2 rocks. In either case I'd say that roll would be a litle dodgy. 'Normal' rolls and backdeck rolls keep the paddle at the surface of the water. Works better for me but each to his own... Get your man to tuck up a bit too

Nice picture One thing, the paddle would be reasonably deep in the water and just waiting to catch the bottom or get snagged between 2 rocks. In either case I'd say that roll would be a litle dodgy. 'Normal' rolls and backdeck rolls keep the paddle at the surface of the water. Works better for me but each to his own... Get your man to tuck up a bit too

U R missing the point, obviously not familiar with this kind of roll. The blade IS kept at the surface of the water. The whole point is that the setup skips going forward with the paddle (like the regular screw roll) and U get extra power from the extention. That said, well - I havn't really used this fo ages ... but it is good to know.

T-roll or storm roll I think it is somtimes called, is used wen there is not enough support on the foam pile to push up on, havin the blade deep in the water an pulling toward you can provide enough support to roll.

its basicly a draw stroke witch you hip flick off its actualy quite easy wat you have to do is:
1)get the paddle vertical

2)turn it so that the blade in the water is at 90 degrees to your boat

3)push it away from you

4)turn it so its paralell to your boat

5)pull it towards you and hip flick

i hope that makes sense give it a try

i always find that if i use it when i havnt planned to go over (when im not practising it ) i bring my head up too fast and it doesnt work maybe this is just a personal thing

hope this helps

lots of names and techiniques that all pretty much have the same principle.
The hip snap is still what makes the roll work.

I thought of two different things when I read this thread

1. a roll in which you grab the end of one paddle blade with one hand and the middle of the paddle with the other hand, commonly referred to as the \"extended\" positoin, and while under water you set up to get the paddle pointed perpendicular to the boat. This gives lots of leverage. Yes. But it still will not work unless you have a hip snap. And it's a bit cumbersome for any moving water.

2. a roll in which you are flipped over, lying against the back of your boat's deck. So, it's like you're swimming face down with a pecky kayak attached to you legs. Grabing one paddle blade with both hands, you stick the paddle straight DOWN into the water like you were going to plant it in the mud on the lake's bottom. If you move the paddle back and forth a bit you'll feel how much resistance you have by that other blade sticking way deep into the water. With a hip snap you can roll back up around your back deck. It's another flatwater roll, and really more of a gimmick used to demonstrate to students that a roll is all hip snap and you can figure out how to do it from almost any positon.

Funny u say abouta t draw role, i done it last night! this guy showed me how to... you put the paddle in a t draw position...go over when you are goin over you cut the paddle through the water like you would doing a normal t draw,and then you bring the paddle towards the boat as you would in a t draw, and flick your hips hopefully with soem practice youl b able to do it! but thers no real point in the role i think.
Nick

The purpos of rolling with the padel vertical is to develope your hip snap.
This one won't work with a poor hip snap, it's also an intermedate step to the hand roll. If you can roll with the padle vertical your hip snap is good enough to learn to hand roll. Most people fethere the blade in a quick schuling motion to load the blade and get some bite on it just before thay do the roll. It could just be a reflex but it does help.

Nitrodude

Yeah i tried this roll the other day, works pretty well if you've got the hip snap.
I think it's mainly used in sea kayaking though, wouldn't really be that great for anything else.
Kicks

I actually learnt to roll like this. I would try and do a bit of a mix of the screw roll and C to C roll, but my paddle would be vertical in the water before I got to my hip snap.

It wasn't till I was good at this that I re-learnt the C to C properly (with paddle above the water) and the screw roll. I must just be weird

I think the only thing different mentioned about this T-Draw roll is the fact that you can do a bit of a stroke, then use a skulling/drawing motion to feather your blade back away from you and do another stroke. You could do the same thing with a Screw or C to C. e.g. if you feel yourself not quite coming up on your first attempt, feather your blade back to the surface and just do a support stroke.

This thread is a bit old, but I just couldn't resist when I saw this...

Just hilarious!
playak.com/paddle-news.php?op=go&id=256100
Make sure you've got the speakers full on.
D

wwdemon wrote:

This thread is a bit old, but I just couldn't resist when I saw this...

Just hilarious!
playak.com/paddle-news.php?op=go&id=256100
Make sure you've got the speakers full on.
D

I think prize money was about one miiiiilion dollars, given the cheering Nice one Dima

wwdemon wrote:

This thread is a bit old, but I just couldn't resist when I saw this...

Just hilarious!
playak.com/paddle-news.php?op=go&id=256100
Make sure you've got the speakers full on.
D

Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Love it. \"THAT WAS AMAZING!\"



Cheers for that

I can't view that video (maybe because it's 2 years old).

I think someone mentioned the pawlata roll early in the thread, although that's almost certainly not a T-Draw as far as I can gather from the other posts. There were question marks over the spelling and origin: it's spelt "pawlata" and was named after an Austrian bloke called "H.W. Pawlata", sometimes known as Edi or Edi Hans.

Not much biography available on the net but I think it's accepted he was the first European to roll a kayak. Loel Collins' book says he worked it out just from reading about it, which is pretty amazing.

One of the guides where I used to work rolled like this. It was useless. On the flat he'd come up regularly but it rarely if ever even worked in slightly moving water. I think someone taught him the c to c roll badly and this was what he ended up with.

This roll with the vertical paddle whatever its called seemed to have all the disadvantages of the c to c with none of the advantages. Totally pointless to learn unless your just playing about and want to tell good from bad.

Learn a solid screw roll on both sides then anything else, front deck c to c, back deck roll, hand roll is a bonus.

The pawlata roll is pretty much a sweep roll with a modified hand position. Its advantage isnt actually more leverage on the paddle. It increases the amount of push you get from your knee as you move out to the roll position.

Ive never had to use the pawlata roll in moving water but the coach who taught me to roll says its potentially useful if rolling when very tired or when rolling in exceptionally boily water. Ollie Grau mentions using it on an eddyline in the Stikine after every other roll he had failed.

Remember rolling is more about body and head than paddle, the less resistance you get on your paddle the better. With good technique you should aim for every roll to be effortless.