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Does running a waterfall and swiming count?
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Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10568

I think that if you swim it shouldn't count. In any olympic sport... almost doesn't count. What do you think?

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10570

Running waterfalls is not a competition. Do as you will.

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10571

I think i agree with Whitwaterrules, i know to attempt a world record drop and you swim it doesn't count.

The same should be said about any other in my opinion, if you swim on a waterfall you did one of two things - You messed up your line savagely and swam but have the ability to run it, so do it again or you are not good enough for that drop and should come back and attempt it when your skill level is up.

If you had to stuff up a rapid and swim through it would you say that that is a successful run?

Scotty

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10575

It may not count as a successful drop but you can definitely say that you have dropped it. Make sure you say that you swam as well. Make sure you go back and do it clean as well.

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10580

It may not count as a successful drop but you can definitely say that you have dropped it


I think that is what the debate is about. Some people may feel that it was a successful decent but swam at the bottom.

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10582

scottyr wrote:

I think that is what the debate is about. Some people may feel that it was a successful decent but swam at the bottom.


Well then I say talk about how cool the drop was but say you got it after you have it clean.

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10587

DOESNT 'count' (if we are 'counting' - as someone else said - it isn't a competition!)
That said - WHAT ABOUT WHEN IT IS A 'COMPETITION' - either a proper event, or just a 'show off' session - be it a waterfall, wave or hole??

I've been through this discussion in other sports - and despite what some 'aspiring' athletes would like - FALLING NEGATES ANY CREDIT.
This seems to apply equally to Snowboarding, Skateboarding, Wakeboarding, Skiing, you name it.

Boys and Girls - you get NO CREDIT, bragging rights, or NUTHIN! if you blow it - in Kayaking that means swim, or similar.

SO - I think the moral is - be carful when and where and how you push yourself. Don't ride on Kodak courage or peer pressure - you may drown!

And don't bother trying to impress with half-ass tricks you can't quite pull or land clean...

Just my two bits!

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10599

Tuomas wrote:

Running waterfalls is not a competition. Do as you will.

;) 8)

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10619

That would count as an attempt, Just like any other wipeout. Cuz you cant wipeout if you dont try! If it's not a comp, then you would get props most def. Quality video entertainment too,. :frustrated:

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10641

well I think if pat keller had to swim that 83 foot fall, I wouldnt give a sh*t, he had the balls and skills enough to do it

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10643

well I think if pat keller had to swim that 83 foot fall, I wouldnt give a shit, he had the balls and skills enough to do it


Why don't you aks him, i'm willing to bet that Pat wouldn't accept that as an accomplishment and would fire up the 83ft in time to get it right.

And bare in mind that he didn't swim...

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10644

Now, you don't run waterfalls to accomplish anything - you ran them because it's fun. If you ran something you really like the line and are super positive that you can stick the line, you won't have any regrets if something goes wrong or you injure yourself. Like Pat broke his arm due the impact.

Pat run a big ass slide at high water this summer at Fantasy falls California he was pretty sure hes was going to swim out of the bottom hole. But he thought the line was so much fun that swim doesn't matter. So he ran the slide and swam out of the hole.

We are not out there paddling to accomplish anything. If you ran something you aren't particalarly comfortable with just to accomplish something that doesn't even exist you are on the wrong track.

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10646

Its obviously a huge debate and each unto their own. That said, i was talking about self-accomplishment and nothing to do with kodak courage.
I feel, some agree and others don't, that if i swim after a waterfall and i know i have abilities and it was just a messed up line then i do have a sense of disapointment but if i stick the elation is fantastic.
Similar to what you said, Tuomas, which to me is self accomplishment. And i love that feeling.

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10647

Yes. There's no better feeling than running a challenging drop or rapid and absolutely stick the line as you planned. Where else would you put your skills under test than on hard whitewater? We all make mistakes. Sometimes it's just bad luck and we shrug it off because we know we have the ability. Sometimes we need to be humble and accept that maybe it was too much for our skill.

Becoming better at running waterfalls... Now that's an achievement.

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10663

It doesnt take much skill to drop!

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10669

It doesnt take much skill to drop!


REALLY?? How much experience do you have with running waterfalls?

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10672

crazy_babey wrote:

It doesnt take much skill to drop!


Dropping is easy - there's no doubt that the gravity will do it's job. Running waterfalls in control... to carefully set your pitch, yawn and roll for the freefall in a fraction of a second. For me running waterfalls is one of the most challenging things about river running.

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10673

just out of intrest when you say swim are you talking poping your deck and leaving your boat or just rolling?:ask:

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10684

coopertron wrote:

just out of intrest when you say swim are you talking poping your deck and leaving your boat or just rolling?:ask:


Swimming starts when you exit your boat.

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Re:Does running a waterfall and swiming count? 18 years 5 months ago #10685

that guy on the rhine falls last weekend, that surely didn't count. he started to swim above the falls, and only his boat went down... literally :)
If you're happy, you're successful.

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Re: World record attempt on negative thumbs 18 years 5 months ago #10694

Having both gone over the bars and landed flat a few times (and got hurt), I am inclined to agree that running waterfalls is not without skill and technique.

However, it would be a very naive person who could not admit that this is probably the area of kayaking with the highest Russian Roulette factor.

Here's Foxy's satirical slant on this:


Source: White Water South Alps, P. Knowles, 2nd edition, Rivers Publishing, 2003 copyright, p. 150

My rule: if the guy who is intending to run the waterfall is looking 'through you' its probably best to run-away - these people are on a mission. If he/she is looking 'at you' then its probably going to be OK.
Attachments:

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Re: World record attempt on negative thumbs 18 years 5 months ago #10698

However, it would be a very naive person who could not admit that this is probably the area of kayaking with the highest Russian Roulette factor


The same can be said for a person only having paddling experience of a couple of months and running a class V rapid. This Russian Roulette factor comes into play equally as much in all aspects of whitewater paddling.

Then call me naive because i don't think a decent paddler should ever have to take chances, you paddle as far as your skill level allows. I know i'll never attempt a waterfall i am 100% comfortable with - where i know all the tricky moves above the lip, the right place to be at the lip, the timing of my last stroke, body position in the air, sure of how to land and avoid all necessary dangers at the bottom (undercuts, strainers, etc).

I think running waterfalls everything to do with skill and technique...

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Re: World record attempt on negative thumbs 18 years 5 months ago #10701

scottyr wrote:

The same can be said for a person only having paddling experience of a couple of months and running a class V rapid. This Russian Roulette factor comes into play equally as much in all aspects of whitewater paddling.


Russian roulette is the 'uncontrolable' risk (even by your good self) which exists to a greater or lesser degree in all outdoor sports. To believe you can achieve 100% safety (comfort) in any outdoor sport is (in my opinion) unrealistic.

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Re: World record attempt on negative thumbs 18 years 5 months ago #10738

Well, if you play one game of Russian roulette it is \"unlikely\" that you will lose. The odds are five to one in your favor.:yes:

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Re: World record attempt on negative thumbs 18 years 5 months ago #10757

Many are 6 shot too, so even better... :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
hehehehehehe

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Does running a waterfall and swiming count?
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