Well I have just about got together my cash for a creek boat , having sold 3 of my old freestyle models! but I am still unsure what to buy.

Would love to know what you lot think about the Burn, Ammo, Jefe, Nomad and any other boats out there that do the business.

Thanks in advance,

Andy

You can´t go wrong with Dagger Nomed.
That is one creeker, that you can buy without testing first.
I didn´t.

kuuskoski wrote:

That is one creeker, that you can buy without testing first.
I didn´t.

Ignore that advice, it is just plain stupid. Always demo a boat before you buy it, it could be the best boat in the world for someone else but something silly could make it awful for you. In example The dagger Nomad is an amazing creek boat (certainly one of the better boats on the market) but due to some weirdness with the seating position I get really bad cramp in them after about ten minuets (even with adjusting seat / thigh braces) therefore it would be a huge waste of money for me to buy one as I would have too sell it straight on ad would loose out in doing so.

I would recommend getting a short list of boats that interest you together and try to have a go in all the ones you can, then buy your favourite of the boats you test.

Your short list might want to include:

Dagger Nomad,
Pyranha Burn,
Eskimo Salto (I have one of the 2006 models and love it)
LL gus / Jeffe
Riot Magnum (I love the design of this boat but love the plastic a little less)
Necky Crux
Perception Java (cheap and very underrated)


Hope that helps,
Denzil

Where do I start...
You have a nice list of creekboats on your post.

How often can you get to demo that number of boats ?
Let´s say, that you testpaddle a boat on a lake. Are you ready to make your pick - on a creekboat ?

How often then you then just end up buying a boat without having a chance to demo it first ? Well, I seldom demo and that´s why decision is based on:
a) Has this brand a track record of solid boats ?
b) Have I tried this brands creekers before ?
c) Can I get reliable information from this boat ?

Maybe you want to take this demo-idea on retailers and persuade them to have their demosamples available ? Good luck with that. I don´t think their margins are that great.

In a real world your chances are limited - as are mine.

I am not suggesting that you will get a chance to try all of these boats on your favourite local Gd5. A retailer would be mad to let you. But to buy a boat you have never even sat in would be mad, you can get a feel for the comfort and feeling of a boat on flat water (yes even a creek boat). If you go paddling with someone that has a boat you are interested in ask to have a go, if you bump into someone on a river with a boat you are interested in ask to have a go (I have been on both sides of this many times), go along to any local events being supported by a manufacturer as they are likley to have there whole demo fleet available (This weekend Was the G17 Adverture paddlers Weekend on Dartmoor where I could have demoed, if I wanted, the whole Dagger and Pyranha range although the only new boat that I demoed was the Ammo but only because I have already paddled the rest), if you can't get a proper demo of a boat at least take it for a carpet surf in the shop and stay in it for 10+ minuets moving around and seeing how it feels.

Essentially do what you can to try as many boats as possable.

Denzil

There are two major factors that you muct consider when buying a creek boat.

1. Will I look cool in it. (this is really important)

2. Will other people think I'm cool for having it? (Even more important.)

After that it's just boat specific crap like, does it have enogh volume for my weight? Does this boat help me stay on line better? How straight does it resurface? Am I comfortable in it? Is it going to fold on me when pinned?

But seriously, these questions are a waste of time. Go with what your friends have. If it doesn't fit right, there is always lots of mini cell foam.

I am guessing you have been working on your sarcastic wit (sarcasm is always hard to get across in written form) or you are the worlds biggest muppet. I am guessing it is the former.

Denzil

P.S. how are you getting on with the rocker? I really didn't like it when I paddled it but I know some people love them.

I sold the Rocker and got a new Mega Rocker. At my weight, I need something bigger. The MR is a huge improvement over the original Rocker. It turns faster, boofs better and is more stable. I'm very very happy!

Good luck with your hunt. You'll find what you're looking for.

Denzil,

Firstly, I´m not trying to piss on your oatmeal, ok ?
But let´s talk some more:D

Based on your avatar, my wild guess is you paddle a lot at HPP, right ?
If so, you´re in a position to have samples from all kinds of boats, because there´s at least 2 major retailers in that city.

Now, I live in Finland, where the number of ww-kayakers is propably the same as in Nottingham.

The Avatar is not HPP, it is Hayle Sluice in Cornwall (which is where I live). My nearest decent Kayak retailer is AS Watersports in Exeter which is a 1.5 - 2 hour drive away from me.

The main way I get to try so many boats is I ask people to let me play in there boat and I spend a lot of time on Dartmoor on the rivers there surrounded by helpful and friendly paddlers. This may not be as possible for you where you are but even if it is quite a lot of hassle to try a boat before you buy it it is definitely worth it. You don't need to try every boat out there, just the ones you might be interested in.

Denzil

UK is special, because you do have access to every boat, that pops to market.
I can think of quite a few european countries, that are worse of in that sense.

I´m not sponsored, so this one´s from the heart;
Nomad is one sweet creeker and I still think, it has the ergonomics to accommondate most boaters. It is like a gift, that keeps on giving,

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the replies YES even the sarcastic ones. I will obviously try and Demo a boat prior to purchase but as with my last purchase a Project52 all I could do was sit in a shop in the boat.

The shop had no demo of the boat and I could not decide between the 52 and bigger one BUT it was when it first came out so there were very few on the water to try out.

I see that stonewease1 has tried out an Ammo! What did you think? As this is one of the boats on my ever growing short list of boats to try to demo..

I suppose I am intrested to know what people think who have the boats already ie did they buy the right boat, are there any issue ie I know alot of people have moaned about the thigh braces in the Burn! The edges on boats snagging on shallow ramps etc these are the things that you only find out when putting a boat through it's paces NOT while demoing it on flat water. Although if that is the best you can get then yes that is better than a carpet surf or just a web surf.

Andy

PS Just on another topic have you seen the videos on www.nookie.co.uk there are some cool ones including a parachute jump where the safety had to be pulled at the last minute.

Pro_pyrahana wrote:

I see that stonewease1 has tried out an Ammo! What did you think? As this is one of the boats on my ever growing short list of boats to try to demo..

I have indeed paddled an Ammo, as a full on creeker though I could not recomend it and indeed I do not belive that that is what it is intended.
It is fine for making a familiar run more interesting and I would have thought it would be excellent for super low water, super tight creeks.
Unfortunately though It lacks any strait line speed and is kind of cork like in the way it gets pushed around, holes and stoppers try and grab it and as it has no speed to carry it through they can be hard work to punch.
On the same run in my Salto everything was much less effort.

Denzil

P.S. The one thing it is great at is rock spin 360s. On my run in my Salto I only nailed one really clean one where as in the Ammo I must have nailed 9 or 10

I'm still creeking in my LL Huck and I won't be changing it anytime soon even though I've tried the jefe.

I find that creekboats are better without the bells and whistles that make playboats so much fun and so hard to choose between. The shells are all kinda the same so just choose the seating sytem that you like the most, the size (if applicable) and the colour you like.

These days all creekboats have full plate footrests, multi karabiner points, rounded ends and keyhole cockpits. Some have flat hulls and others have rounded hulls which is a point to look out for but easy enough to check out carpet surfing. For full on creeking the rounded hull is the way to go, flat hulls are for big water.

Good luck with the search,

depending on how much money you have, check out the habitat, especially if you like wavesport and would like to stick with them.

I have heard good feedback about Fluid's solo creeking boats.
Try them uot as well if you can get your hands on one.
Good luck
PS: take your time choosing a boat, if you rush it you might end up with something you don't like after a week and that takes a lot of fun out of paddling.

Well went and did a bit of capet surfing and so far have come to a few conclusions! The Nomad I am not going for I just can not get along with Daggers cheap and nasty outfitting. And did not like the feel of the boat as there did not seem to be much to get my legs under with regard to thigh rests! I am used to playboats where I can wedge myself in, so I am looking for a similar feel to my creek boat.

The Burn looks quite nice although I am concerned about the one bolt wonder thigh braces there to...........now the Ammo has sweet outfitting and feels like a playboat to sit in and I reckon would do just about anything in this country.

My only concerns with the medium one would be - it has very sharp rails and might hang up on slides. And maybe the speed for punching big holes as it is 7'1, flat bottomed and quite wide!

Saying that though I liked the fit and feel..........I am a playboater and so like short boats so paddling wise there will be less polarization stepping from my project to the Ammo! It will no doubt handle more like a playboat should I get stuck in a hole and I will imagine suuit my paddling style.

I do believe you get used to the boat you paddle and paddle it accordingly. So if you are used to a big boat then yes it will feel like a cork and not padle around holes the way you except BUT if you are agressive in your paddling style then you can make a short boat work for you just look at the success of the spud!

Andy

Being predominantly a playboat (and admitadly surf boat) paddler myself and Having paddled both the Burn and the Ammo I would think you would be infinitely better off in the Burn. It still has a flat spinney bottom that means it is highly directionally mobile (as is the ammo) and has a certain playboat feel compared to some creek boats (my Salto for example). It also however has most of the characteristics you would want from a creek boat such as good tracking, good speed to punch through stuff, holds it's line nicely etc. that are clearly missing from the Ammo.

I don't think the Ammo makes a very good creek boat for you only crreker, I think it would sit much better as a third boat for someone who already has a creeker and a playboat and wants something in the middle.

Denzil

I don't know what types of rivers/creeks you plan to run, but you might want to get a full fledged creek boat, if you are serious about hitting the big stuff. There are many safety issues that you need to consider, and you're not going to find these safety features in a hybrid or play boat/river runner. Volume is a big issue when going over big drops and into large holes. Having a large keyhole on the boat, so you can get out in a hurry, is also important. Not to mention storage space for gear.

I love to play boat and I love the feel of my play boat, but creeking is different. You need speed. My Creek boat handles differently than my playboat, but it only takes 2-3 minutes to get used to it and get going. If I took my play boat into some of the holes I see on creeks, I'd still be stuck in that hole today.

Now there are those that will disagree with me, and that's fine, but I can tell you that the best creekers in the world all use creek boats. There has got to be a reason for that. Again, I don't know what kind of water your going to be on, so this might not be an issue. I'm just trying to keep you safe.

Take care

I think it depends on how hard you are going to be running it. The Ammo is creeker enough for running grade 4 creeks. It has a keyhole cockpit and extra karabiner attachment points and although it is short still has much more volume than a playboat in the ends.

My concern for harder creeking would be the edges and flat hull. Also more volume in the ends for fast resurfacing after drops and not going so deep (read hitting the bottom) when penciling drops.

Looks like the carpet surf was worth while then after all.

Have fun in the new boat.

I totally agree with aevanloyd. decide what you want to do, then choose a boat you can do it with. a lot of brain power was used to better the boats, and that has to count for something. if the pro's creek in a full on creeker, there must be a reason for that. what might be a good idea is to try and get in touch with corran eddisson on his forum at www.2imagine.net i think.

he is one of the best creekers in the world and might be of some assistance. you can check out the draggorossi boats as well.
i believe their creekers will be of top notch standard, but that is my personal view seeing i have never paddled a dragorossi creeker before. a bit pricy though.

seems like looking for a decent creeker is more time consuming than deciding on a play boat.
good luck

If you got a chance try out the Pyranha M3. It has really changed my creeking. It took my a few times to get used to it (harness its power) but after that.. this boat is a machine. Drawbacks for me are outfitting. I only \"like\" wavesport outfitting. I'm excited for the new rocker too though. X-link is really bomber. I think pyranah is now using better plastic than WS

Have to admit I have always been happy to run grade 4 in my playboats and even bits of grade 5 if I know the river. But if it is pushy ie spate or just big water with tight and technical then I would want a boat with more volume!

Just to highlight the river runnning in playboats and why not too do it theme THIS IS NOT ME BTW!
coull.tv/node/193

I agree with the comments about bottoming out on large drops and admit that the boat would not have the speed of a longer full on creek boat!

Also yes I agree with the plastic comment I am not really impressed with the Wavesport plastic either in my T3 or Project!

I am not so sure about the comments about staying in a hole for ever...I am talking about predominantly uk and mainland europe paddling. And as I said before the spud was a bomber kayak for tight technical creeking and yet was very short! And yes did get stuck in holes BUT you could surf it out as it was more controllable in a hole than a barge!

The medium ammo is 7'2 I believe only 10\" shorter than alot of the creekers. Although I realise the flat hull will make the boat slower and less directional! BUT I also agree that I need to think about what I will be doing in the boat - mainly Wales, Scotland grade 4-5 rivers hopefully in spate. Italian, French, German, Austrian Alpes and hopefully Norway!

But the boat will mainly be used for UK boating!

Andy

It sounds to me dude like you have already decided on an Ammo and are now trying to justify it. No need, if it is what you want go and get one. Personally I would not buy one as a creek boat but you are not me and you can make your own decisions. Most of the pro's and con's of the boat have been laid out now and I agree with nearly everything that has been said about the Ammo, it is your call as to what your cash goes on.

Have fun in whatever you buy dude,
Denzil

Thanks Denzil, actually I have not decided on the Ammo - I am just looking for the best boat for me as you say! I like river running and playing on the river and am just wary of buying a boat that is less responsive and fun BUT then I suppose I can paddle my project down grade 4 and 5 that i know and use something like the LL Jefe for out and out spate brown trouser time!

What I really wanted from this post I think is to know if any of the creekers out there should be avoided like the plague due to bad design or plastic issues etc.

Andy

if you're happy to run class 4 in your playboat then get a dedicated creeker instead of a compromise. Why trade safety when you need it the most? If it's a class 4 run and has a great wave, then you'll obviously take your playboat. I know sooooo many people in the same situation as you are and have gone with a creeking specific boat in addition to their play specific boat.

Hard edges will be an issue, but hte entire boat does not have to be round, just the edges.

many of the rivers here in New England are similare to the U.K.
totalwhitewaterfun.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_archive.html

Hi, I'm also looking for a creeker. At the moment I run Class 4 and 5 with my (oldschool) Kendo and i'm looking for more volume because the Kendo isn't that well on resurfacing. My thoughts were on the Bliss Stick Mystic or the Fluid solo.
Does someone have tried one of those and can compare them with the Burn. I'm not happy with the plastic Pyranha uses.

BAS