A question for the experienced.

I’m new to ww but have relevant experience in boating through sea kayaking and I do roll well so I feel I’m not a “beginner from scratch” ww paddler. Besides my sea kayak I own a ZG, a Diesel and an old school Vortex that is a 10.5 foot displacement hull kayak.

I like the ZG even though I can’t do diddlisquat yet but it has a well defined purpose i.e. park and play. I also like my old school boat because it cruises well – one can take a line and then charge forward to the next set of rapids at a reasonably fast pace. My dilemma is with the Diesel.

My observation is that the Diesel, and other similar boats under the guise of a river running creeker are truly used as creekers by the elite. That is, most every pic/ad I’ve seen has some big name running a falls. I don’t use my boat this way because I don’t have the skills and I’m probably a long way from it. BUT as river runners or all-rounders once past the momentum of the fast moving water these boats are slugs and they don’t play well either.

I know the modern river running creekers are more forgiving than the old school boats when running a line but I’m willing to sacrifice the “forgiving option” for the enjoyment of the après cruise and I’m definitely willing to develop my skills with the old school boat if that is my only option to get from point A to B fast.

That said, do river running creekers, like the Diesel, have any other valued characteristics, other than true creeking and/or forgiveness in a run? Are there other boats on the market that are relatively faster than the creek type and more forgiving than the old school boats that I should look at?

I’m hoping that I can spark up some good discussion from the seasoned paddlers out there because I’m sure there are a lot of novice paddlers like myself that are royally confused by the marketing hype and would appreciate a few words of wisdom with regards to the big picture on ww boats.

RiverRunners are more stable than Creekers ussually.

\"creek\" is usually short for STEEP creek. Emphasis on steep. Creek boats are made to resurface quickly, balance between speed and turning (with an emphasis on turning usually), have blunt ends and edges to minimize the risk of tripping over rocks, or pinning on them. Specialty boats for the hairball stuff.

\"rodeo boats\" \"Playboats\" \"freestyle boats\" \"park n play boats\" or whatever else they are called are the opposite end of the spectrum from \"creek\" boats. They are smaller, have flat hulls for easier surfing and spinning on waves, lower volume ends so that you can flip on your head sideways, longways, all ways and do all sorts of flippy tricks. They are usually hard edged boats.

\"river runner\" is the catch-all category for everything else in between. Very hard to define. Some boats are freestyle boats that are puffed up and stretched out a bit to give them a little more speed,and makethem less prone to doing accidental freestyel moves. Other boats are creekboats that have surfing hulls on them.

I import the DragoRossi boats. Within that line of kayaks we have three boats that we would call \"river runners\"

Gangster is the closest to a creek boat. As a matter of fact, many people use it as a creek boat. It is very round, easy to roll, medium-high volume boat that resurfaces quickly. But, we call it a river runner because it is the most traditional feeling boat of our entire line up.
www.100waves.com/specs/gangster.html

Pintail is designed specifically as a river runner, while keeping in mind many of the freestyle tricks of the recent past. It is longish for today's standards (7' 4\") but still short enough to cartwheel, spin, and do many wave/hole tricks. It is a very fast boat.
www.100waves.com/specs/pintailxl.html

Stinger is a \"spud\" boat that is just a little too big to be called a freestyle boat for people under 170lbs. It is an updated version of the original \"spud\" concept. When everyone started paddling short, stubby boats for freestyle,they figured out that these blunt ended boats were ok for general use as well as light creeking. But, the freestyle boats kept getting smaller and smaller, and eventually they got too short for most people's river running purposes. So, the Stinger is a new take on the older \"spud\" boats that were long enough to be all around boats.
www.100waves.com/specs/stinger.html


Look up these three boats and you will see how different they are, and it will give you a good idea of what sub-category of \"river runner\" you will be most interested in.

Scott
www.100waves.com
Dragorossi USA importer
[mail address protected from spambots with javascript]

I came across this article too - it has specific references to Riot boats but is still relevant.

www.peakuk.com/peakuknews.php?article=54...lter=-1&sample=0