Hi,

I am in a market for a white water boat, have only been paddling for 6 months - grade 2 only, in an old eskimo topolino! Looking into getting a bliss stick as they are cool and affordable in New Zealand.

I really dont know what kind of boat I should get, but i beleive that something more forgiving than a playboat should help me to bridge the gap from grade 2 to grade 3,

I am leaning towards a SCUD.

help me decide what to get from the bliss stick range to narrow the search down!

p.s. I live near a surf as well but I am looking for a boat to run the rivers something that will get me down the stuff that I cant get down yet. And yet something thats not boring either, hence I taught a shorter scud.

If the class/grade ratings are the same in NZ as they are in the US, you should be fine in almost any whitewater-specific boat. The Mini Mystic is a river runner/creeker, and the SCUD is a playboat/creeker. For easier runs, the SCUD should be fine, but remember that it doesn't have the footblock system that the Mini Mystic has. You might also want to consider the Huka, if you don't plan on running any big drops.

The SCUD is more of a "If I can only have 1 whitewater boat", but it has a planing hull, which means that it will be better at playboating than a true creeker, but it also means that it won't absorb a landing like a creeker will, esp. when you land flat.

I would say get the Mini Mystic, since you can't really outgrow it, in terms of performance. The only problem with a boat like a SCUD is that you might eventually want to upgrade to a true creeker, as well as a true playboat, which means that you would then have 3 boats. It would be ideal for a raft support trip on a river like the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon in the US, since you can paddle down river, and still play.

Really, a playboat shouldn't be very much tougher to paddle down class II/III, except that it will be a bit harder to roll and the edges could get caught in the current, meaning that you will flip more. Some people will paddle playboats down class IV, as well as big water class V rapids. At my local whitewater course, the US National Whitewater Center, more people paddle playboats, just because there are so many playspots. It is class III on one channel, and class IV on the other, though.

Basically, getting a creeker will mean that you should advance faster, since it is more user-friendly than a playboat. Getting a playboat means that you could have more fun on easier rapids, but you would have a tougher time on some rapids. There are some people that use a SCUD as their main creekboat, though.

Thanks for your opinion. Now that you mensioned huka as well you just confused me even more! Grading system in NZ i heard is the same as in the US except for grade 6. In NZ grade 6 in you do it you die. And in US you can do it. This is just what i heard and I am a total beginner. I have the impression that NZ has more creek style rivers, as opposed to big water. Again i could be wrong.

I hear what you are saying regarding scud, that I could end up with 3 boats later on. I want to think of hear and now, as I am new i dont really know what I do like or dont like, so the idea of a flat planning hull and a shorter boat souds good to me so that I can get the feel for playboating and river running. I live near a surf so in summer we hit the waves, I assume a scud will be more suitable, however i dont really want to think about that stuff. I do have access to a few club play boats eskimo kendo to name one.

kendo boat was a handfull for me with low volume back end i was upside down before i could take a deep breath. So I dont want a true playboat, I want to get confidence to run more difficult rapids than i do now in my eskimo topolino. I also want to develop good technique. I can roll.

The way I look at it i need a big volume stable boat that will give me confidence to go down the river. But when I do make it to the play feature hopefully not upside down, I want to be able to learn more about kayaking what the boat can do learn good technique and a boat with flat planning hull will give me that. Am i talking rubish or not?? I realy am very very new!

I have seen videos of people doing big drops with a scud but i guess pro's can do anything in anything!

What would be a better boat for just going down the river with no drops or small drops??? Do you want a flat hull or not when going down challenging rapids ???

I dont know I dont know anythiing,

I am 80kg mini mystic is rated for 50-85 would that be suitable ???

You might also want to consider the Huka, if you don't plan on running any big drops.

The Huka isn't any good at big drops? I paddled one once and assumed that was the only reason people owned them, I couldn't see any other good points about the one i was in.

The Mystic is a great boat and a vast improvement on the Huka. My advice is to buy the mystic, and use your club boats for the surf, but your best bet would be to have a chat to some club members, they would have a better idea of which boat would suit your local rivers best.

In NZ you have a bunch of people who love the SCUD and a bunch who hate the SCUD. I think if you are new to the sport perhaps a MAC 1 is a good compromise. It gives you the length you need to learn to carve well and the planing flat hull for basic surfing. By the time you outgrow the boat you will have a better idea of where to go next.

One could argue that your transition from G2-G4 paddle would be done better in a longer boat than a shorter boat like the SCUD.

I am a bit lighter and I paddle my mini-mystic 80% of the time G2-4 so when I am in a creek I know what eddies and drops I expect to make. I feel safe and secure in this boat. I would not choose to paddle a mini-mystic in the surf - unless it is to practise the basics and your roll.

A year ago I used to paddle the rad 180 80% of the time (including the surf) but got frustrated because I wouldn't handle the Mini-Mystic as well as I wanted for the 20% I was paddlin it. Basically playboats and SCUD's can allow you to spin into eddies but perhaps more precise technique is required to paddle your creekers into some of the same eddies.

Hope this helps