I'm a Brit in central Europe, Czech republic. My boat is a dagger nomad 8.5 which i got on advice from a kayking school in the UK. They said to go for an all out creeker and an all out playboat instead of a hybrid of both. Now that my roll is pretty solid and I have been running grade 3-4 without dramas and now able to make good line and tight eddies I think its time to learn to take advantage of the waves and holes and buy a playboat.

Ive researched for hours on the net and lets face it its not always possible to try every boat out there. Ive paddled a dagger agent 6.4 on flat water and was able to double pump and get it on the stern fairly easily after an hour or so. It was comfy and it felt well balanced for me to paddle. To that end I would like to know which is better for a beginner to learn to playboat in out of the agent and the king pin and is there a lot of difference in the centre of volume.

I want to surf in the sea as well as play in the small river features and waves and holes at the local slalom courses as this is what is available to me locally and of course the sea when I go back to the UK and on holiday. OH and not forgetting playability on flat water (there is always plenty of that and its still time in water)

If you need more information I can give it to you but i dont want a shop to try and push me to buy a boat that they just want to clear!

Kingpin or Agent?

It sounds like you may have answered your own question. If you can get it on the stern in about an hour or so, double pump and it feels comfortable id say your pretty much on to a winner.

I just bought a playboat and im learning to cartwheel, it took me a lot longer than an hour and plenty of falling on my face to get it on the stern comfortably! If you look at the hull shapes of both the kingpin and the agent there very different, i mean the agent has more of a spindisk than the kingpin. i compared the 2 on playak, go to boats DB on the top bar near to forum and compare away

Im far from an expert but if uve spent time in one and its comfortable thats a good start, however if you can demo a kingpin then do it, it may be better for you.

The advice i was given by the guys on here was demo demo demo, Thats what i did. I went to all my local shops and got in everything and paddled it around.

good luck fella

matt

Cheers mate,

I got the boat on the stern but couldn't hold it, just so you know. The only reason I could do it was because I practised in my first boat in the pool. I have had a look on the DB many times and I'm looking more of comparison in feel and performance rather than specs. As you know you can waste a lot of money on a new boat and tons of people do.

It doesnt even have to be a dagger but I trust them because I've had them before. I'm not going to be doing anything mental in it....just need the most forgiving and stable platform for a beginner playboater to learn without getting smashed up on the water everytime.

Hows your biscuit by the way? What made you choose that boat?


Gazza!

Thats quite funny you should say that. Up until an hour ago i was feeling like id wasted my money!

Ive been having real problems learning to double pump, so much so i was getting pretty disheartened and thinking im never gona get it. But then an hour ago i managed to double pump and get on the bow( i then proceeded to fall flat on my face) but i was still for a moment which i think means if i keep practicing i'll turn that into a stall and then maybe a cartwheel.

I was told the other day that ive picked a boat that is actually harder than most to cartwheel. Dont know how true it is but obviously when you look at it the ends are not as slicey as other boats. i have a mate with a robson twintip and i can get that on end much easier.

On the whole the the biscuit is good, well made, the bad ass outfitting is very comfortable and it surfs really well. I think its made more for waves than holes and like i said it surfs really well. im not skilled enough to be doin any major moves though so cant help there. I went with the biscuit after demo-ing the superstar, nemesis, project and the biscuit obviously. Funnily enough i couldnt even get in the agent. lol. im 6'3" and bout 100kg.

The other boat i would have chosen if not the LL was the fluid nemesis.

matt

you cudnt get in the agent cuz its got very narrow thight supports. i cudnt get in it either im 6.2. id say the kingpin is a very good boat to begin playboating. i know about 3 people who started in kingpins and now are very good. and they all say its a really good flatwater boat. id go with that cuz their not that expensive either.

Kingpin and Agent are both good boats. The Agent is a sort of a better developed Kingpin.
I have both boats, and there isn't a better one to choose!
On the flat water the kingpin is the better boat; moves quicker easier to cartweel. it feels like putting on a good fiited shoe.
For surfing in the sea, the Agent is defently the better boat. Is surfs very well and is very bouncy, so easy to get air!! The back of the Agent is better shaped, so surfing backwards is easy aswell.
The Agent is te most comfy boat.
Hard to say though, but if I had to sell one of my boats I would sell the kingpin and choose for the Agent.

i have heard that the kingpin is a great boat to learn in but as far as waves go, the agent is the way to go, it is a much better boat for carving on a wave where the kingpin is more hole oriented. however, Dagger still produces both boats so neither is really a bad choice.