What would be the easiest boat for a beginner looking to run class III water? Definitely not looking for a playboat.

I would say the best bet if they are available to you is the Fluid Spice and depending on your weight medium or large. The kayak has enough volume and length to happily run gr 3 and because it is not as big and bulky as river runners like Fluid Detox or WS Diesel it is much easier to control and enjoy. It also rolls easy.

I agree 100% with Deon. Fluid Spice.

How forgiving is the spice (it would be a large); are the edges grabby? Also how is its stability?

I think a creeker is a good place to start. they are forgiving enough to keep you out of trouble and won't hold you back when you want to step up and run harder stuff.

Headless_Chicken wrote:

How forgiving is the spice (it would be a large); are the edges grabby? Also how is its stability?

The Spice is very forgiving, and the edges high. Read my review on the medium here:
adrian.playak.com/index.php/articles-mai...-spice-medium-review

Please note that the photos in my article show the old outfitting. Fluid have updated that now!

if you want that will give you fun get a big dog havoc my friend has one he says they are very stable on grade 3 if you want toget down in one piece then get get a boat on the larger end of the river runers like a LL remix or hoss they are both very forgiving

I would not recommend getting a big creeker as a first boat. Sure it is very forgiving and you will go down class 3 with no troubles/fun. But when you take your first swim odds are that is will be an epic one. I think it is better to start swimming early and gradually work you way up to huge swims After all we are all just in between swims

I would recommend getting a large play boat or a river runner that you can also use to surf small waves and play in small holes, having a flat hull helps for surfing. Some thing like the Pyranha Inazone (if you find one) is a good river runner for a novice. Not that I am a Fluid fan, I don't know them, the Spice has a good shape for a beginner. But there are many boats out there with this shape, so Fluid is not the only option all major WW kayak brands have a river runner for you. Look more on the river-play side of things than river-creek side.

Save the huge boats, like the Hoss and Remix, till you get old and just want to cruse down some rivers with your kinds. Unless you are already old then go for it Or when it is time to huck some big stuff.

Thats my wisdom for now

I just remembered a bit more wisdom

"There are two groups of people who start kayaking. Those who swim a lot in the beginning and then later become good kayakers. The others never swim in the beginning. Those you see paddling a SUP and C1"

Get a creekboat first, because a playboat will lead to more swims and more frustration early on. Once you are on class III or so with a good roll, get a playboat as well, and, in a sense, start over again. That said, I feel like my Project is more stable than my Solo, and I have grown to like the edges for getting into eddies. Plus, there's more to do on the flat sections in a playboat.

Swims are also going to depend on the type of river. I've had 2 swims on natural rivers (haven't gotten out a ton though), but it's not uncommon for me to have 5 or so in a day at the US National Whitewater Center, because the currents are so much more unforgiving. I would say that in general, it's easier to paddle creek-type rivers than big water type rivers. This isn't to say that you should go out and get on some class IV creek immediately, but the bonier rivers tend to be a bit more forgiving. There's not as bad of cross currents to mess you up, the holes aren't as sticky, etc.

I would say the best thing I've done this year though is just paddle my Project into holes at the whitewater center for hours. I had 8 swims one day, but got more used to being upside down not under my own control, and diagnosed what I was doing wrong with my roll, since it is tougher to power through your roll in aerated water. Plus, it's just plain fun to get an ender, to a cartwheel out of the hole.

skirnir wrote:

I would not recommend getting a big creeker as a first boat. Sure it is very forgiving and you will go down class 3 with no troubles/fun. But when you take your first swim odds are that is will be an epic one. I think it is better to start swimming early and gradually work you way up to huge swims After all we are all just in between swims

Hehehe, I do enjoy your wisdom Jon! According to a proper evolution in kayaking, your swims versus time graph should be an inverse exponential curve, ie. lot's of swims in the beginning (on the easy/safe stuff) and way less later on in life. A big swim in the early stages of kayaking may put you off for life. I've seen people get into kayaking too quickly and then bang they get hurt, and that's it, they get rid of their gear..

A playboat will feel more stable in flat water than a creek boat yes, but that doesn't mean the playboat will be easier to paddle. The short length, low volume ends and low edges are designed to get you vertical for playing, exactly what you don't want when learning how to paddle. I would not recommend a full on playboat unless you live near a big volume, easy rivers. And by big I mean like Ottawa type size. Something a bit longer with a flat hull and some edges will be good. Boats like the Fluid Spice or Fluid Detox, Wavesport Diesel, Pyranha Burn or Pyranha Recoil, maybe the Dagger Mamba, LL Remix? Speak to your dealer, they know the types of rivers close to you and will be able to give you the best advice.

I agree with Skirnir here, in the sense that you should not try to be avoiding swims. Although you will have plenty of them if you're serious about doing full blood white water 3's as a beginner and not all of them will be pretty, with any boat.
There's nothing wrong with getting a big stable creeck-inspired boat as your first boat, they're just a bit boring whenever you're not paddling at the top of what you can do. I'm personally a proponent of the "Oooh, let's see what happens when I go into there" school of kayakking. Get out onto rivers that will not kill you or make you quit kayakking (the second one is the bigger risk) when you go swimming and just try stuff. A big Diesel-like boat will help you get through the stuff you try, a more play-inspired Spice-like boat will give you more practice on your roll, maybe even more feeling with what exactly that water is doing with your boat. If you think you're ready to do class 3 but you don't feel comfortable doing it with a playboat than I'dd advice a Diesel/Burn/Detox rather than a Spice/Showdown/EZ/you get the idea. There's more of a performance boost in the big boats (and they're more boring, did I mention I think they're a bit boring?). Remember though, swimming is just as bad with any of them, a boat does not help you when you're drifting alongside it.