I am interested primarily in a riverrunner. I am 6' , 190# and have primarily been a class 3 boater and some class 4 rapids but not entire runs in class 4. More interested in class 4 now. Probably won't be class 5 beyond possibly running the Penobscot gorge and cribworks here in Maine/USA.

I have paddled Fluid Spice in med and large. I liked the narrowness of the medium, it's ability to pierce water and its maneuverability. I found the large better punching holes without a loss of maneuverability.

I have also paddled a large early version Burn, when I weighed 215-220. I felt fearless going downriver, punching holes and stayed remarkably dry at that volume. At that size 8'3", 27" wide, 80 gal., while good facing downriver, it was a load to maneuver precisely. With its length behind the cockpit and edges I found myself surprised/upside down with what I felt were modest technical miscalculation. I understand the edges were seen as a problem and were softened, but I wonder how much was also length(obviously think it was more boat than me!)

In looking at going up in class, I am looking at larger boats again, hoping to regain that stability/ forgiveness downriver without the maneuverability/edging issues of the early large Burn. It seems some manufacturers solve the dilemma by going with short fat boats that I have no experience with(it's hard to demo up here in Maine with the nearest store a couple of states away).

I am leaning toward the Fluid Detox. It's design choices are similar to other
Fluid boats; a little narrower, a little less volume, a little shorter than competitors in the same niche. The edges on the Detox appears similar to the Spice, which I have liked. I am at either the high end of most makers' medium weight range and the low end of most makers' large range. I am tempted to get the medium for maneuverability but will probably get a large boat since I am primarily interested in additional downriver benefit, I still have the large Spice, and a medium riverrunner would be too close. I presume the additional forgiveness of a pure creeker would be offset by the loss of precision for what rivers this boat will mainly be on, but would gladly be corrected if wrong.

I would be interested in opinions regarding the Detox but would be interested in other boats as well and in opinion in general regarding riverrunner design trade-offs and theory versus the realities of paddling the various boats.

Thanks in advance!

The Detox has fairly hard edges from what I've seen, and I wouldn't be afraid to look beyond a river runner either. For what you want, I'd look into mostly creekboats, including maybe some of the 2010 Jacksons, Pyranha Karnali/Everest, Fluid Solo M or L, LL Remix 69 or Jefe, Dagger Nomad, etc.

On most rivers in NC at least, they tend to be lots of boogie water with shallow rocks that edges will catch on easily, so a rounder hull will be better if ME is the same way.

If you want to be on class V gorged runs, I'd definitely be looking at a creekboat. However, after rereading your goals, some river/creekboat may work, like the aforementioned Remix, or maybe something like a Dagger Mamba (not hard edges, but still slightly planing). Talk to your paddling friends and see if you can try their boats as well; I've found that the Remixes are really hard to get back on line or turn quickly, and I've blown lines by several feet because of it (mainly trying to hit the far RR boof at Trashcan/Sunset at the USNWC in Charlotte), although it is way more stable than my Solo or Project IMO.

i have the new burn i think it is awesome the changes have made it easier to move about. i do similar class paddling to you get the medium instead of the large.