I currently have BCU 2 Star and am about to take 3 Star, but cannot yet roll. I would like to get into a playboating, but i dont know whether it is worth it, as i cannot yet roll. Do you think i will need to roll before i buy a playboat?

Thanks
Dan

buy a playboat, get used to how it feels, learn to roll it, start your progression to becomeng a freaky freestyle master.

Denzil

P.S. not being able to roll will hold you back a bit to start with so the sooner you learn to roll the better.

I learned to Roll in a G-Ride then went to ab S6F to of the most arguably hardest boats to roll. Learn in a playboat then you will have a roll for life if you keep practiceing. I went into my buddys RPM Max and had troble with over powering it

I agree with every one eles. I learned in a dancer, and then tried to roll in a skip..... NOt good, i paddle a 2fun, it rolls realy easy.

It depends on your other kayaking skills but even if you don't get into playboating learning to roll is very useful. One of the best things is that if can roll you need to roll less because your braces are a lot better and you know how to recover from a really deep high brace (because that's basically what a roll is all about).

If you have someone you know that might want to teach you how to roll (fellow clubmember?) you should be able to learn the basics in an afternoon. After that it's just practice, practice, practice. And you'll get plenty of that when you start playboating

well i have been learning to roll for about a year, but my club does not often have any pool sessions to practice. I go kayaking with my club every thursday in a basin, so i will probably just try to roll for about an hour or so. I enjoy my kayaking and i feel i am gettin quite good at it, and the only thing that lets me down really is not rolling. My high brace is very good as well.

I think i will try to learn to roll before i get a playboat, but im still not to sure.

Dan

If your high brace is good you should have no problems rolling. The technique is the same. Try bracing deeper and deeper, in the end they call it rolling instead of bracing.

well i havent been taught to roll using a high brace... except for when you roll up... is that what you mean?

Dan

I mean that the technique used for rolling is the same as for bracing. It's a flick of the hip (hips don't lie ). I don't teach people rolling by using a high brace, but since you said you are proficient in that, you should be able to do a roll too. Look at it like doing a high brace while upside down. Anyway, it's impossible to teach somebody to roll (or anything else) via text, so get out there with your club and ask them to help you.

So I don't know what you mean with "except when you roll up" , since that's what you want, right?

When you can roll make sure that you dont become complacent, Rolling is hard 2 learn and easy to forget

cheers, im going kayaking 2night so im gunna put in some practice with the roll
thanks dan

i have my 3 * and level 2 coach award n i cant roll proplery ,i got a playboat and im finding it easier to learn how to roll in that! so no worries.
cant wait to learn to roll proper cos then i can start playboating!!!
yay

any ideas on helping me learning to roll peeps???

Try lying down on top of something like a hill. if you are a beginner you might wanna ask somebody to push you a bit to get you started.You'll see, if you keep your body rigid, you will roll. Remember, stay safe, keep your arms close to your body, shoulder injuries are common issues! Also wear a helmet at all times! Also be sure to check out the hill doesn't lead you rolling down a cliff or a lake or something.

[color=cyan:a9fb93e092]hehehehehe.... good advice, nice [/color:a9fb93e092]

[quote:08019e602b]i have my 3 * and level 2 coach award [/quote:08019e602b]
you have level 2 and you cant roll?! i though you had to be able to roll for level 2...

yeap. you need a roll to get your 3*

no u dont unfortunatly
the book says "beginngs of a roll"

which could b being able to set up and get like halfway up or getn up with instructors help. i think that is important for a coach to b able to roll cos what u gonna do with the group while u try to sort yourself out if u swim.

n e way learning to roll before u get a playboat would definatly b easier but it doesn't really matter.

When i did my test i had to come up with 3 attempts so i had to be able to roll

yeah i know 3* guys who cant roll, it dosent bother them because they enjoy Kayaking, at the end of the day thats all that matters

The thing that i found most helpful when rolling was if you are struggling, or in a wide boat, then lie back with your helmet on the back deck. this encourages the paddle to go more at right angles to the boat, and making less drag by not having to haul your bodweight through the water. hope that this helps, GS

I learnt to roll by someone holding the stern of my boat and and helping me get up. the person at the end helped less every time so it built it up gradually. also I only started getting anywhere near a roll when I learnt to take my head out last.

I did my three star years ago and have been rolling successfully since then (even with eight years off kayaking). I now want to get into playboating and need to buy a boat. I;ve just returned this minute from trying a dagger medieval (apparently an old school river runner/playboat which is pretty wide with a flat hull). It was a bloody nightmare! I rolled successfully twice in the space of an hour and failed every other time. A bit disheartening. The worst thing is that it has to be due to technique and when you've been doing a thing successfully for a while its hard to go back to basics and actually have to think about it. I'm unsure what playboat to go for now (a thin one i expect) but i'm not quitting! It has to be down to the hip flick and the head movement. A pool session (or basin in your case) should sort us both out mate.

I've found it extremely useful to use my small digital camera and have someone 'film' in a 30 sec video clip my roll practice. You can then look at it, see where your head / paddle / etc is at, and adjust rapidly - I find it really helps to 'see' it yourself, as opposed to someone else's interpretation.

Having someone hold the edge of the boat in the pool whilst you set up, then when you SNAP your hips, that person can add just enough more SNAP with their hands to help you up - this works well so you get the motion down from setup thru SNAP and upright - Once you've got the 'feeling' of a proper roll, the extra hands will be needed less and less, and the VIOLA! you are up all on your own...

And as previously mentioned, practice practice, got it? - practice more - every river day for me and my friends begins with a bunch of rolls in the eddy before we head out... keep it tuned, it will save you!

amazingly i learnt to roll on the first sesion. one because i had a very knowledgable mate helping me though and analysing all parts of my role and also that he helped me to start with

another part that helped was i learned in a kiddy pool lol.
it was shallow so i could get the hipflick and also the push from the floor..may not be the best way but then when i went in to the big pool i could do it.

some key bits though is to make sure your head is last part out of the water.and use a good strong hip flick! espeacially when beginning!

good luck

Okay... I'm going to attempt to teach you how to roll via text. I've taught seven year olds I think I can do this.

Print this out or at least take good notes and bring them with you keep it simple.

THE 2 MOST IMPORTANT THINGS!!!

The 2 most important things when rolling your kayak is you MUST:
1) Keep your head and torso LEANING WAY BACK.
2) Your head MUST come out of the water last.

Before I go any farther let me explain in more words. If you do not lean back, your head acts like a keel on a boat, it wants to fall. I tell people, "Look at where you CAME-FROM, not where you are going." You do this and you are past half way to learning to roll. If you raise your head as you start to come up, you become top heavy and your head will tip back over. Your head will push your body back under water if you reach for the surface.

Leaning back isn't so hard to think of but not leading with your head is more difficult so think of it one of two ways:
1) Look at where you came from NOT where you are going.
OR
2) Just keep your ear glued to your shoulder on the same side you are
coming up from.

So I'm going to teach you to roll in just FOUR STEPS. Now IF you keep your HEAD and TORSO leaning WAY BACK, this will work! If you can't roll, it is 99% sure that you are reaching with your head or not leaning back.

Side note: It is NOT harder to roll a big boat over small one. This is a false myth. In fact, the longer the boat, the easier to roll. A longer boat will drift less and keep the tail more buoyant as you sweep, and it will roll like a log which makes is easier to Eskimo-roll your kayak. What does affect your ability to roll a kayak is technique. This is a skill; it requires finesse, not so much strength.

So what 2 things are most important in rolling a kayak? Say it... I mean it say it to yourself every time you go for a roll you will roll.

Secret tip: I used to think I didn't like being upside down in a kayak, until I got nose plugs. Then I realized it's just that I don't like water up my nose. So I would breath air out of my nose to keep it from filling with water. Next thing I know, I'm running out of air and I start to freak out. GET NOSE PLUGS you will be calmer, be able to open your eyes and have more time and oxygen to do your roll properly. Trust me on this one!

Step 1: The Set-Up
Step one is easy. I am going to explain everything in relation to your own body so that you don't have to think of where you are in space while being up side down.

Before you tip over practice setting up the paddle. Here is how. All you do is hold your paddle normally.

Now... bring your RIGHT BICEP to your FOREHEAD and LEFT HAND to your LEFT BUTT-CHEEK. You should now look like an upside down T and your right blade-face should be facing right.

Guess what... you are all SET-UP and ready to go!

NOW... practice this WITHOUT TIPPING. Then practice this WITHOUT TIPPING and with your EYES CLOSED. Do this until you FEEL how to do this and you know without a doubt, that you can get to this position EVERY TIME.

Once you can do this, you are ready for STEP 2: PUSH-PULL.

Oh yeah and don't forget... What are the two most important things to do when you roll? Say it! HEAD AND TORSO LEANING WAY BACK!

STEP 2: PUSH-PULL
So once you can get to the set up position EVERY-TIME with EYES CLOSED you are ready to do it up side down. Sorry to tell you this but yeah you're going to get wet, trying to roll your kayak. Not way to avoid this. But this is the funniest part of kayaking or you may as well be in a canoe!

Now one common reason kayakers fail their Eskimo-roll is that the paddle never makes it ABOVE the surface of the water. The surface tension of the water is much more supportive than being just below the surface. You can see this for yourself if you slap the water with your hand you'll feel much more resistance than if you put your hand just below the surface and push, even if you are pushing with the same force. Your hand will simply sink right under if you don't get it above the water vs. getting it to slap the surface.

Step 2: Take a second to settle down. Now just SET-UP as you already know how to do very well (bicep to forehead & fist to butt-cheek).
I want you to push out and towards the surface before you pull the paddle down. This is for two reasons:
1) It gets the paddle above the surface of the water.
2) It actually creates a stronger pull on the paddle. Similar to how
before you jump to get a rebound in Basketball you crouch down for
a split second before you leap up.

If you are curious about the science of this read this paragraph, if not skip this part. Being an Athletic Training student I can tell you. You have bundles of nerve fibers around your muscle fibers called the Muscle Spindles. As you stretch the muscle it stimulates these nerve fibers, which send a signal to your spinal chord that actually causes a reflex contraction. Just like when the doctor taps you knee with a rubber hammer. He is actually stimulating the Muscle Spindle nerve fibers. Anyhow...

Recap:
Step 1: SET-UP
Step 2: PUSH/PULL

Step 3: You start with your right bicep on your forehead and your left fist on your left but cheek. As you pull on the water to Eskimo-roll (REMEMBER LEAN BACK AND HEAD DOWN) reach out and away from the boat as you sweep and finish in opposite position you started. So left bicep on forehead and right fist on right but cheek.

So you finish in the opposite position you set up in, but with an extreme back lean and head LOOKS AT THE WATER as you come up. Look at where you came from, NOT WHERE YOU ARE TRYING TO GO!!!!!!!!


Re-Cap:
The 2 most important things when rolling your kayak is you MUST:
1) Keep your head and torso LEANING WAY BACK.
2) Your head MUST come out of the water last.

Step 1: Set-Up
RIGHT BICEP to your FOREHEAD and
LEFT HAND to your LEFT BUTT-CHEEK.

Step 2: Push/Pull
1) It gets the paddle ABOVE THE SURFACE.
2) It actually creates a stronger pull.

Step 3: Reach out from the boat as you sweep and finish in the opposite position you started with HEAD and TORSO LEANIGN BACK
LEFT BICEP on FORHEAD and
RIGHT FIST ON RIGHT BUTT CHEEK

Now you may not get the roll the first few times. But if you do what I have said, you will roll. It is very important that you follow this progression. Don't skip any steps and don't move on until you have MASTERED the steps IN ORDER and ONE BY ONE. Good Luck, let me know how it goes.

Peace,
Boe

Important Note: ALWAYS consult a physician before attempting to Eskimo-roll if you have or have ever had ANY back problems, neck problems, arthritis, or other health issues. As always, paddle at your own risk and never paddle alone. ALWAYS follow all kayaking safety rules. Don't try this if you are not able to wet exit you boat.

i have been doing playboating for a while and i been tryin to backflip. is it possible??

cavemanx888 wrote:

i have been doing playboating for a while and i been tryin to backflip. is it possible??

Yeah it's possible. Jeroen showed me a video a while back... Not sure what the link is though. Maybe someone else knows

It's in the video's, technique section.
Remi Wegman is doing a flatwater backloop:
playak.com/media.php?src=dmlkZW9zL1RlY2h...UmVtaSBXZWdtYW4uYXZp

yeah, i remeber that vid froma a while back, pretty crazy. But back to rolling and playbaoting and do they need each other. Yes, rolling helps loads with playboating, as the nature of playboating is getting your boat on edge and coming close to flipping most of the time. I suppose if you had a really good t-rescue person there at the whole or whatever it might be possible, but i really wouldnt recomend it ive seen it lead to a lack of confidence in paddling skills. Rolling in general helps with confidence, and that in turns, yould probably help your playboating.

thanx for that i will try and get the video and get some info on how to do it:dance: