[img]images/boats/pyranha/burn-m-th.jpg[/img]Boats Database: Pyranha Burn M

The Burn's much more than just a modification of the critically acclaimed H3. We've listened to detailed feedback and given you more volume and subtly tweaked rails to keep you on the surface and on line. We've also refined the rails to stop you hanging up on shallower runs and rockslides and, of course, we've loaded it with the lightest, strongest outfitting around.

I'm a brand new whitewater paddler and need a river runner. I'm 5'8\"\", 180# and 55 yo. Don't want to bust the bank. Any thoughts on Dagger Mambo 8.0 vs. Liquidlogic Hoss vs. Wavesport Diesel 65 vs. Pyranha Burn M vs. Jackson Superhero?

Well, I'm a newbie as well, but I have paddled the LL Hoss, the WS Diesel 65, WS Diesel 75, Fluid Spice M and Fluid Spice L and Pyranha Burn. The Diesels are very good boats right out of the box since they are forgiving, easy to roll and the outfitting is unmatched. They're ideal for learning. The Spice will take you to more places but it's going to be more challenging to learn and get the outfitting right. You'll have a steeper learning curve. The Hoss is a great river runner but is more edgy than the Diesel. The Burn is a progressive creeker, it's definitely a creeker but it's got some playboat-ish features - the flatter hull, edges, flatter sidewals. It goes where you want it to go, can surf and is still forgiving. Anyway I got a Burn.

Thanks much, very helpful. Heard any word on teh Dagger Mamba? I love the way it fits me, but I like the hull and edges on the Diesel better.

Hi, no, I have not heard much on the Mamba other than the Wavesport outfitting is better.

As a beginner you will love the Mamba. It's super forgiving, rolls itself, but i would suggest something more play boat like to learn in (something like an EZG 50, pyrahnna 222, even a Project 45 or something) . You are looking at all of the creek/river running boats. You should really look more into a river runner/ play boat category or else you will learn fast for a while and then just stop learning until you get a new boat. You will learn slower to begin in a play boat, but it will really help you if you continue kayaking and play boating. If ya want I have a perception Amp for sale. It was a great starter boat, but something like that.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree on the Mamba and its outfitting fits me to a tee. I'm concerned that if I go your direction and my first boat has too much play I'll get frustrated and burn out early. I can always sell and buy up if I advance too fast. What do you think? Am I about to make a mistake?

Like you said, you can always trade up. It will be great for what you want, just to get the basics of river running. Maybe then keep it and get another play boat! Just go with your head, nobody can make a decision for you. Just make a decision and stick with it, and you can always buy another boat.
Good Luck!!!

Well, this is the way it worked for me. From what I've seen as a newbie and asking lots of questions, there are two schools of thought. 1) That a newbie should get an easier boat like a creek boat or a diesel and then get another later and 2) that if one persues the first course, they will learn that boat and then get bored, their skills will get soft, so they should get a \"harder to learn but more more fun once learned\" boat right at the start, so they'll stick with it. I was having a hard time making up my mind - I was considering the Fluid Spice or Pyranha Ammo, but then someone asked me \"How much time do you think you are going to spend on the river?\" My response pointed me firmly in the creek boat end. I can't spend the 3X a week a Spice or Ammo might take to learn. I also paddle touring boats, have a job and just don't have enough time right now to learn the play boat stuff. And I travel. So they said I might never even like the sport if I tried a harder boat at the start. They suggested to me that I might stick with the sport longer, considering my time limitations, if I got something more forgiving to start. I hope this makes sense. No doubt the idea of surfing with the Ammo or Spice sounds great but at this point in time, I want to enjoy river running and staying safe. Maybe if I have more time I can get out more. Just FYI I am in the kayaking biz and it requires me to spend time on non-whitewater stuff.

If I can add my:2cents: here

I wouldnt discount the ammo... It has the forgiving edges and bouyancy(esp in the stern) of a creeker but still the playability from the plaining hull

Im really quite confused as to how a \"playboat\" will make you frustrated and loose interest... People who have never paddled before learn in boats like the Jackson Fun series and they are playboats... IMO the biggest \"problem\" with learning in a playboat is if you are leaning back (aka sloppy style) you will catch the stern...

Now dont get me wrong, learning to paddle in a creeker is going to be easier and more forgiving but I personally would reconsider the ammo... for straight up river running you wont be able to tell much (if any) difference and once you want to surf and play you might just want the plaining hull

Just what I think....

As far as boats go. Its all about demo. What fits me might not fit you...

I have never been let down by Pyranha...EVER...I still have my Micro 230 from 12 yrs ago!!!

Wavesport outfitting is awesome... Jackson Outfitting is even better (IMO) although I do prefer the thigh hooks on WS.

What I would ask is where in the paddling workd do you see yourself? Do you want a quiver of boats? Something specialized for each occasion? Or just one boat for all occasions?

If you want a do-it-all boat... Id say Pyranha Ammo or JK fun(seriously demo one:grin: )

If you think you'll be getting into creeking in the future, Id get a creeker for now then once/if you want to get into playboating then either get a playboat or free running boat...

Most important thing is to be happy with whatever you buy

OK Im done gabbing

Let us know how you do and what you go with

Double post...I know

JK just released an updated Hero series...cant paste the link but go to
www.jacksonkayak.com and look it up

Ok bye

hey guys i test paddled a liquid logic remix while my friend tested a pyranha burn does anybody know how the LL stacks up to the Burn? i sat in both they fit me well im 6'3\" 160 lbs. and new to whitewater kayaking and i want somthing to learn to roll in and play a little bit too got any sugggestions?

If you just tried teh Remix then give the Burn a try too. All the hype and opinion will not measure up to a seat-of-your-pants test (particularly if you are new to the sport). If you can get your buddy together and if you guys can get both boats out at teh same time, theen you guys can just trade off and make good comparisions.

I sell DragoRossi boats and would encourage you to also give the Critical Mass (big boat) and Gangster (medium boat) a try too. But, no matter what you do, boats you try, put some effort into getting another demo session in.

ya thanks for the advice i checked out their website the boats look pretty sick! i live in north Georgia do you know anyone in the area who sells or demo's thes boats?

There is a store called Over Flow in Gainsville, GA. Not to far away.

hi
i am 180cm tall and 65kg and still growing am i better of getting the M size or the S
what is betta the burn or the LL jefe

ta will