Yesterday during a practice session I realised, to my horror, I have completely forgotten how to roll After embarrassingly having to bail out on flatwater, I tried the rest of the afternoon to roll, but it was hopeless, I was even worse than when I had originally started to learn how to roll!

Hopefully I'll get it back, but from the afternoon it looked hopeless. It's not like I went ages without rolling either, no more than two weeks. Has this ever happened to anyone? With rolling or something else. It's quite bad, especially since my mates are already a fair bit better than me, and I'm able to get out on the water more than twice a week.

I took two months off climbing a few years ago and forgot how to tie a figure eight...yes at the base of the cliff...yes with a bunch of other climbers standing around.
It did come back to me, but I looked like I had no business on the rocks that day!
Good luck!

I can imagine, it's always in front of people. Thanks

I've seen people loosing their roll from time to time and the common thing amongs them is that they never really learned the proper technique. This obviously leads to inconsistent roll. Constant practise is the key so tighten your nose plugs and get your head wet

i lost my hand roll a few years ago. really annoying. i got it back after asking for help and some practice. dont be ashamed get help. i think this made me a better paddler as i prcaticed every thing more.

Wow, sorry to hear about your roll problems but they are not that uncommon. Usually what happens in such cases is that the roll is not grooved into our subconcious enough to overcome our natural intuition to want to breath and use muscle to right ourselves. When the natural intuitive forces take over our roll, disaster usually results.

Check-out this video series we put together, in particular the segment on the Hybrid Roll (#5) it might help:

www.exchile.com/KayakSchoolRollIdentifier.htm

Good Luck!

Chris Spelius
www.kayakchile.com

I thought I'd lost my roll a few weeks ago but after only on and off but I checked through everything I normally do and figured out I wasn't opening my eyes now I make my self open my eyes when I'm under and I seem to get a better set-up, so my advice would be to keep trying and check through evrything that could of gone wrong.
Good luck

@Psymon: it looks like the stress of not being able to roll prevented you from relaxing enough to roll. I guess the best thing to do is get together with someone you know and trust and practice. Simply start with practicing your hipsnap at the poolside (or, if you're in a pond or something, along the docks or at your mates' kayak end). After you have built up enough confidence try (hand)rolling with a piece of foam or a PFD. The foam/pfd should give you enough support to get you up. Once you've got your hipsnap nailed start with rolling with a paddle. That way you do not rely on your paddle to roll but the paddle movement just helps you go through the motion of rolling.

But at all stages: relax! And keep your head down

It happened to me this weekend when i was teaching my wife how to paddle and she knows i can roll. So she asked me show it to her and i couldn't. Well after 2 tries i finally got back in the groove and got it. It has been about 2 weeks for me too.

At the beginning of this season I had lots of trouble rolling. Last season I was rolling despite hitting rocks with my face. I focused on proper technique got some pointers and it came back stronger.

Wow, thanks a lot everyone for all the advice. It makes me feel a lot better knowing it's happened to other people. Thanks in particluar to exchile, for the video link, and michielv for the advice; I'll try that out as soon as I can.

Ive just had a couple of months off injured and was worried id have forgotten how to roll etc. However was fine with a bit of practise and can now roll on my offside which i couldnt really do before which is strange. When ive seen people lose there roll the most important thing to do is to break it down and relearn it. Its not normally lost more just one small part forgotten. Good luck.

I was actually out on a lake practicing when I forgot how. I had already done at least 50 rolls that day, and I went over and could not get back up for anything. I signalled for a t-rescue, got back up, and tried again with no luck. THis last time I swam, and i could not roll again for the rest of the day.

I went back out in a couple of days after evaluating what could have gone wrong, briefly went through the basics, and had my roll again.

My advice is relax, think about it, go back to the basics, and keep trying. It is still there, you just need to find it again. it also helped me to slow down. I flipped, set up, counted to three, and did my roll. While I counted to three, I went through the motion in my head.

Do not feel bad at all. One of my kayaking buddies lost his roll after a couple of years of consistent rolling. He started over completely and it took him a couple of weeks before he had it again.

I had this too..

I was out for 7 yrs, I could flatwater roll at the beginning etc even had a couple of combat rolls.

Long story short. I started to miss rolls, the more i missed the worse i got. Turns out it was mostly in my head. I was not confident being upside down. what I did was just learn to relax. Tell myself wait, wait OK.

What I was doing was. rushing my roll and diving my paddle. Remember to get your paddle out of the water- then sweep. Once i had that, all was well. In the course of 2 days I went from freaked out by class3 to relaxed in class 4.

So stay with it.

Also what really helped with my confidence was playboating. just get into a flushy hole. when you flip you need to hang out for a second b4 you roll... and eventually I just felt good

This apparently happens to quite a lot of people! It'd be nice when you learnt how to roll, they'd tell you there might be problems remembering it
Laddie: I think we're in the same boat, I'm not very comfortable upside down. Although I think it's more the cold, I don't think I'd have as much of a problem in a pool. This means I rarely stay upside down, and so never eskimo rescue (might as well address all my problems while I'm at it). I just don't like being stuck upside down. I usually bail and swim, much to my friends (and mine, to be honest) annoyance. Anyway, this means learning to roll again is going to take TIME.
I've never gone on anything above barely running water, so I guess I'll just have to learn to love it....
Cudamav: I'll try to relax. It's the most annoying thing to practice because if you fail, unlike any other trick, you're stuck upside down Slows down progress. I think a main problem is I was never sure the way I learnt was the right way, it was a version of the C-to-C, but I never leant in any direction or flicked my hips, and I just half the motion and I was up
I don't know whether to learn that way again or the 'proper' one my friends do, I have to pick one and stick with it.
Thanks again to everyone for the supportive advice

I know exactly what you mean about the cold... I grew up in NE Scotland, learned to kayak there.

A good start is EJs Rolling and Bracing DVD.

Now, there is no way to get comfortable with being upside down in moving water (any water) without just simply doing it... I know it sucks but it is true... You can hold your breath for 10 seconds. Actually try saying that to yourself once you flip \"I can hold my breath for 10 seconds\" that should be enough time to clear your paddle.

My confidence shot up after paddling into holes to get flipped... cant even tell you how many times I capsized last weekend but it was a lot...(worth it as I nailed my first loop !!!!!!!!!!)

Some things I would do...

T-Rescue... get your comfort level without having to bail every time you capsize

Now that you are better at that

try to roll...

remember, hip flick!!! last thing out of the water is your head!

As you build the muscle memory, it will get easier:lol:

Oh yeah, have someone who knows how to roll AND can teach it... plenty ppl can roll but to teach it and be able to break it down are key.

Good luck and keep us informed

NE Scotland?! You must be as hard as nails, the waters as cold as I'd ever want it to get down here, right in the South of England.

I'm going to Woodmill club this afternoon, where theres instructors (it's where I first learnt to roll) and I'll address my upisde-down insecurities there, before I start rolling. That 10 second thing should help, thanks. And it's always the hip flick, I can never do that and sweep across. I suppose I can practise it during T-rescues

Hopefully there'll be some progress before tonight, I originally learnt it in a day, after all, so I might post back a very happy guy

And, of course, congratulations on your first loop

How'd it go?

I've got a few more tips for you if you need... I kinda taught myself to roll in the beginning.

I got comfortable upside down and waiting for the T-rescue (my friend made sure of that) but apart from that no progress, unfortunately. Thanks for asking though. I revised the technique with the instructors, but no one was free to come out on the water, so any tips would be great I'm out on the water tomorrow, and it's going to be a hot one

Ok..

Do you know what the Spluata (ckeck the spelling) roll is?

Rolling up on the right side:

Capsize.
Now that you are upside down, move your hands down your paddle so your left hand is holding the blade any your right hand is where your left hand used to be.
Sweep the paddle out on a wide arc with a climbing angel, you dont want the blade to dive... This will create a whloe lot more leverage to help you learn to hip flick.

How solid is your High Brace? That would be another thing to learn/tighten up. THe roll is at its basic level a high brace from upside down.

As you learn to roll it might help to bring your whole body back( so you come up on the back deck)

Really, really, really check out EJs Rolling and Bracing DVD... I think that will help the most (without hands on instruction)...

Let me knopw how it goes and I can keep sending you some tips

Yes it happens to lots of people but it comes back to this :
We are going to think from the Core to the Skin, what the core of the body is doing is most important conquer first, compared to the extremities

1. Decide which roll your are going to do.
2. Make sure you understand the body movement required. Not a vague idea really understand what the movement is.
3. Practice the core body movement dry before you even get in the water. Get in the starting point and move your core body to the finishing point. You can do this on every roll. (see the roll videos exchile.com)
4. Once you have got this practice, this memorized core movement with some thought to the arms and wrists movement required.

IF you do not understand the movement required get a dvd, book, an instructor, or the free online roll videos at exchile.com and keep repeating it till you do understand the movement required.

5. Then and only then 3hen you have practiced the core body movement dry then try to set it in the water with someone holding your hands.

6. Remember your starting point and finishing point in the water. IF you get to them the ROLL WILL WORK. IF you let the intuitive instincts take control they will stop you from getting to the finishing point that you want. (This is number one reason for failed rolls.)

7. Send me a quicktime file of the roll you are doing and I can tell you what you are doing right and if anything wrong.

Finally I reemphasize do not be vague. Vague to me is a comment to relax and try again. IF your body goes through the correct core motion and you have your arms and paddle in the right position it does not MATTER IF YOU ARE TOTALLY PUMPED WITH ADRENALIN THAT ROLL WILL WORK. IT IS A BATTLE of what you know is the right technique with the panic instincts that just want to get your mouth to the air. Which prevents you from doing the right technique. A vicious circle. BREAK IT DOWN TO THE ABOVE STEPS AND LET me know if any of this helps you. Chris Speilus email at www.exchile.com

Listen to Chris:notworthy:

Honor to be on a forum with you btw

Laddie: I tried that Spluata roll thing, but it was hopeless, so without seeing it for myself I think it might be best to stick with the normal way. My highbraces are acceptable, nothing to shout about though, they could do with some tightening up. I tried the leaning back, and underwater I thought I did, but according to the people watching I didn't, it's just so strange to try and do for me.
exchile:I'm trying the C-to-C roll, I think thats what it's called. I go over the motion time and time again before I try it, but once I go underwater it all seems so hard to replicate. I can get on the water in a few days time with an instructor, so hopefully I can get ti done then. I spent more of yesterday upside down than enjoying the sun, with next to no progress. A weir just isn't as much fun if you can't roll. I can try and get it filmed next Saturday, but thats quite a way away. If I could only get on the water more than twice a week
Thanks a load you two for your continuing comments, they're really helpful. Although it may not sound like (and isn't) much, following your advice my head is clearing the water now...I'm trying hard to do you proud

Laddie,
the honor is mine!!!! I am teaching my young daughter and I am going with a back deck style roll for her first stage roll.
take care,
chris

This happens to one of my mates all the time. Given he is using a new paddle but it tends to be more about confidence. As soon as you start doubting yourself chances are your roll will get worse just because you'll be more worried about getting a breath. Just keep trying and it'll come back. Due to the whole confidence thing the main problem that causes an initial failed roll is lifting your head to early. Just remember it should be one of the last parts up and against your submerged shoulder.
Hope this helped.

Learning the c-c roll is a great way.

The key (when learning is to keep your paddle up and out of the water

This might help:

\"thumb up your bum\"

If you can get your back hand clearit will give you more clearance with the paddle.

Get your rear hand up and over your butt.

......

As far as the roll is concerned. the body motion is a big part

go to youtube and lok for some underwater video if rolling... pay speciasl attention to the body motion...

What I do is this

Tuck up and get my paddle out to the side.

Sweep the paddle out to 90 degrees to the boat... Pay special attention to keep the paddle on the surface of the water.
As far as body position goes, I teach people to look at their paddle blade this will put you in a prime position

Now this is the practise part

Hip snap and do the same motion as a high brace
(this will get you up)

Last thing out odf the water is your head... It helps if you continue to move your body to thye back deck

Last thing out is your head....

It is hard to type out but I think you will see what I mean, especially if you youtube it

Good luck and let us know... Do you paddle with someone who can help?

That ''thumb up your bum'' thing might actually help, thanks.
It's just the leaning back so frustrating. I can't seem to get it. I'm going out with some instructors tomorrow, so it'll be a solid two hours of tuition and practice, so hopefully I'll crack it then.
I'm normally out with two guys better than me, and they're tried to help, bless them.
I shall report back, hopefully happy. In the meantime, to YouTube I go

www.paddlesup.co.uk/index.php?option=com...;id=23&Itemid=37

might be able to catch some help from here too...

Have you considered going through the motions while on land? Would help with the muscle memory a little

Good news mainly, I rolled In my first time of the week, I managed a perfect roll, and it was effortless. Chuffed to bits, I tried again and it was awful, much to the confusion of the instructors. I tried again, and with the same result. On the fourth attempt, I achieved the most ''ridiculous'' roll one instructor had ever seen, and he nearly capsized through laughing, but hey, I got up! Unfortunately those were the only two rolls I managed, but thats definately progress
I just wish I could get out on the water more than twice a week.
And by the way, I got through the motions a lot.

Congratulations. When you get a video of it send it to me and i can make some comments.

Chris Spelius
www.kayakchile.com