I dont know what you europeans call it. it is bring some body back to life by breathing air into their lungs and helping there heart beat. I wanted to know how many know it or have used it kayaking or not. I am thinking of taking a course but i would have far to travel. so i need to know if it is worth my time ( i know i should but some times should just doesnt get done) i will learn this in college so i am thinking of waiting the year but i dont want to come upon a situation before than. I am also thinking of taking a swift water course and would like to hear from some one who has taken that course

i learned that in 9th grade health, never used it though

yeh learned it in high school. I would say that its useful to take a first aid course if u paddle a lot.

We call it CPR in Europe as well.

In austria you are required to attend a first aid course to get your drivers licence and there has to be a certain number of trained first aid personel at your place of work (depending on how many employies there are).

Yes I've been on the river when CPR been used to save somebody's life and I've met others who have had to use it on the river.

I'd advise any boater to take a wildnerness first responder course as it's the most useful course for someboady who isn't ten minutes away from an ambulance.

I'd also recommend all boaters to take a Swiftwater Rescue Course but then as I'm an Swiftwater Rescue Instructor I would wouldn't I.

Be safe out there,

Neil

www.swiftwaterrescue.at

when people do get in trouble on the river like swimmers for example usually boaters are the first to respond, so you should know CPR and other rescue techniques(i cant spell)

Swift water rescue is good to know. Even for beginers, it changes your perspective on safe/danger, do/dont and all that. I use what I learned in the course a lot, even though I´m not performing rescues all the time. It´s just a new train of thought.
I learned CPR and some first aid, but have never had to use it. I always wonder if I will be able to deliver when I meet my first drowning victim or broken bones victim.... I guess you cant learn that in a book

I've performed CPR on a person (not on the river), and we just had an incident here at the Recreation Complex where I work in which our student employees had to perform it as well. I also am a Red Cross instructor for CPR, First Aid, and AED.

I would say that you, and everyone, should take a CPR at least every other year (the certification normally expires after a year), and a first aid class every three years. One time is not usually enough to thoroughly learn it all, but it's better than never having learned it.

I believe that knowing CPR and basic first aid is just as important as your throw rope/bag on the river!!

I am a Paramedic and know/ use CPR regularly. Don't learn CPR solely for boating rescue purposes, but rather, for life purposes. CPR is a skill you WILL use some time, some place, somehow, for some reason. Whether it is a car wreck you see, a kid hit in the street, your own child someday after he sticks something in his mouth that doesn't belong there, a near drowned boater... whatever. Learn it. It is monumentally important.

im training up ith the BCU Lifegaurds and part of our training is cpr and rescue techniques. i haven't used cpr in real life and hopefully will never have to but i feel that the more people that know first aid the better.

I think all the classes are bullcrap.

seriously though, I was kidding, I took a swiftwater course and it really does change the way you look at the river. I am also planning on getting my WFR since that seems that it would come in handy in all walks of life.

hey,
cpr is great... when it works, which is not often... if all the moons were alligned and if someones heart were to stop at the door of the emergency dept. that person would have a 10-20% chance of survival. Remember, survival also means someone feeding you apple sause for the rest of yourlife. Now your on the rivers edge next to someone who has no pulse or breathing on there own... BAD. What saves people in cardiac arrest is electricty... the cleeaar kathwap most have seen on TV. CPR buys you time... minutes to be exact. OK back to rivers edge. You probably have cool boat a kickass paddle and matching gear, and the dead guy. If your ready to commit like your first squirt, bow stall what ever. Remember the big picture how r ya goining to get this person out...oh wait call for help, what ever is in there stomach will be on there face... yours too after few cycles of cpr ... hope I didn't hurt anyones feelings but thats reality. Families appreicate that all was done for there loved one and helps their healing process, and may help you sleep better that you did the right thing. However, if your not used to this sort of thing it may take you a little longer to get a good night sleep. I've been a medic for over 15 yrs.... I sleep like a baby

whats your point?

are you trying to say that CPR is worthless?

worthless... of course not!

my point.... hmmm, maybe a reality check...don't bite more than u can chew, look both ways before u cross the street

life is short play hard, but smart

most fatalities in paddling occur to experience paddlers or other sports happened to people that knew what they were doing. And if you ask the simple question... after the fact, was there something that could have been done different... YES

measure twice cut once

Hey there New York Medic guy,

Thanks for giving us a heads up on the usefullness of CPR in a wilderness setting. However I suggest you maybe go on a wilderness EMT course yourself and learn something useful.

Yes CPR in most cases of somebody needing it - they have had a heart attack - will only prolong their life not save it, they need a electrical shock to get their heart beating at the right rate.

However there are some situations where CPR is more effective namely trauma and the trauma situations in which CPR is really effective is Lighting strikes and DROWNING!

Why? Well because when you get your head stuck under water for a long time your brain decides to close your throat so that water cannot get into your lungs. When CPR is started the body realizes that there is now air avalible and will start breathing again - just like on Baywatch!

Next time a proffessional person decides to give paddlers advice I hope that they get round to checking their information before they post it!

fo' shizzle

[quote:c1adc941c9="juneyman"] I am also planning on getting my WFR since that seems that it would come in handy in all walks of life.[/quote:c1adc941c9]


i just finished WfR it was well worth it

WOW... looks like I hurt some feelings, just laying out some facts. Yes, the truth isn't always so pleasant.

I don't believe I attacked anyone personally. If I did, sorry.

Yes, I am a professional (with some spelling issues...lol). This is a forum of open discussion.... if you want to get personal... bring it on, but IM me I'll be more than happy to answer all your question, comments or concern.

I was a paddler long before I was a medic... just getting back into it after going to Univ. and making a family. Transitioning from slalom to playboating... plastic boats have come a looong way. Now I'm just choking down the humble pie but appreciating the learning curve.

Back on track here... CPR more effective in trauma...NOT. About 2% chance.... I'm not making this up.

A lightning strike victim needs defribilation, epinephrine and treating of the burns... if the vic. needs CPR because defibrilation was unsuccessful... BAD.

Near drownings... hypoxia of the brain doesn't have anything to do w/ larygospasm (closing of the throat) its a reflex that prevent anything that doen't belong there out. The only saving grace in a near drowning is cold water induced hypothermia... once your agressively warmed in a ED the vic. may be viable... all the cardiac medications don't work until the body is greater than 90 degrees F.

As for Baywatch... I would luv to be an extra and be given Hollywood CPR by Pamela and her gal pals...

So are you saying CPR is worthless?

For the love of God .... NO.

CPR is a link of a chain... a process.

Call for help, CPR, defibrilation, and Advanced Cardiac Support.

CPR... by its self ... is a weak link.

If you want to be part of the system, the chain... go take a CPR class, its a one day class.

Well again that's all well and good. But I personally don't like satistics as they tend to get in the way of the truth.

In cases of drowning CPR is a viable first aid option which works. Paddlers are generally young(-ish), fit(-ish) and do not have heart disease.

Of course if someone has been underwater for 2 hrs no amount of CPR is going to help. However if someone has gone for a very long swim and ends up face down in the water for a minute or so until their buddies can get them to the bank then CPR could well save their life.

Yes the victim will vomit all over you before your done which is not nice but there you go.

Not all rivers or rapids are more than an hour away from definative care, and in my neck of the woods the air ambulances fully outfitted with an intensive care station can be at the river bank in 15 mins after a call. If you carry a mobile phone and have network coverage then that's almost as quick as in a large city.

So how many times have you been present when drowned paddlers have been given CPR and it didn't work? That was the question right at the top of the post I think.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but CPR wont bring the person back to life you will prelong there chances of hopefully surviving by giving them a heart beat and a small amount of oxygen that is left from your breath. The defribulator in the ambulence will bring the casualitie back to life. so dont expect them like in baywatch or whatever to suddenly come back to life when your giving them cpr.

If you really want to point someone to the facts about CPR and its role in the cardiac chain of survival then encourage them to take the course from a good instructor. Then they can become educated in the realities AND know how to perform CPR. That jibberish above, while being partially true, does nothing but discourage folks from taking a course, not what one would expect from a "professional".

this is amazingly off topic but i just read the location for TimmyHO. I heard that kansas is actaully flater than a pancake.Now, im pretty sure that that isnt true but its still pretty falt. Ho are the river. And jsut to add something ot the cpr thing, ive never used it, but my dad saved my moms life with it once.

woops, meant to ask, how are the rivers?

[quote:1cfd91b52f="spinn120"]hey,
cpr is great... when it works, which is not often... if all the moons were alligned and if someones heart were to stop at the door of the emergency dept. that person would have a 10-20% chance of survival. [/quote:1cfd91b52f]

I did my CPR recert last night (hold the applause), and there, I heard an even lower figure- a 5% survival rate for CPR, but with an AED, that goes up to 40%.

Not exactly inspiring odds, but still, I'd rather take 5% than 0%

[quote:b905ed631d]In cases of drowning CPR is a viable first aid option which works. Paddlers are generally young(-ish), fit(-ish) and do not have heart disease.[/quote:b905ed631d]
Yes, most are. However, the stats are the same.

The point is cover your ass, don't just have plan A. Plan for the unexpected ... line yourself up w/ plan B,C,D, etc. Don't get caught w/ your pants down... most will fall on their faces

This is not CPR bashing.

[quote:56f6def5f7]Of course if someone has been underwater for 2 hrs no amount of CPR is going to help. However if someone has gone for a very long swim and ends up face down in the water for a minute or so until their buddies can get them to the bank then CPR could well save their life.[/quote:56f6def5f7]

Once again, correct. This bud is probably in respiratory arrest or just unconscious not cardiad arrest... very different. This guy may just need to get pulled out of the drink... not anyone to jump on his chest.

...remember, I'm on your side...just tryin' to help

[quote:1a8288fba9]So how many times have you been present when drowned paddlers have been given CPR and it didn't work? That was the question right at the top of the post I think.[/quote:1a8288fba9][/quote]

Drownings rivers edge, none. Pool side, lake side 5 or 6. All dead. The toddler was a real treat.

Near drownings 2... those are the ones that survive... sometimes with a marginal standard of life... after 8 minutes of no oxygen to the brain = brain damage.

i dont know about the rest of you but im getting derpressd.

Ok I give in, you really like your stats so I'll go with them for a while if you can tell me who complied the stats ,where they were complied, how many people were in the survey and ages range of those people.

Otherwise they could just as well be complied in an old folks home with 20 people in the survey group, you know?

I seriously hope that you don't really jump on peoples chests when performing chest compressions as that may be a little bit too much pressure.