Halo! Has Riot gone bankrupt now? Check this out:

Riot Kayaks Still in Operation

Riot Kayaks operations continue as closure of Voodoo Technologies Inc. leaves investors and vendors $1.18 million in unpaid bills.

Riot Kayaks parent company Voodoo Technologies has closed its doors, leaving about 68 creditors unpaid and debts totalling $1.183 million dollars.

Riot Kayaks founder and president Jeff Rivest had previously moved Riot operations and production overseas, leaving just a skeletal staff at the Montreal office.
The Montreal office has since closed.

Key creditors left unpaid by Voodoo include the National Bank of Canada, $447,833, the Development Bank of Canada, $90,976, and RESO, a Montreal-based capital development fund, at $37,000. Because some of the government funding is secured, other creditors and investors are unlikely to see any money returned, with some in the high five figures. Many were likely surprised that the debt lies with Voodoo Technologies and not Riot Kayaks, which is still continuing to operate from overseas. The Riot web presence (www.teamriotkayaks.com) includes a recent redesign and daily updates, with no reference as of Feb. 8 to the bankruptcy or its change in operational status.

(source: savannahcanoeandkayak.blogspot.com/2009/...ll-in-operation.html )


I wonder.... Looks like Jeff is being very clever, but not very honest, leaving people not being paid... Not good. What do people think?!

There are many rumors right now, making it difficult to know what to believe.

It would be wise to wait for an official statement from Riot or a larger industry news agent which will receive more press releases from the companies involved.

Jeesh, I was quite surprised to see this thread..

They're not rumours from what people are saying. I don't know for sure of course. And I also don't expect Riot to release anything as it probably wouldn't be great for their image.

Grapevine is saying the new factory is already in Asia. 'Shadow' company funds new factory in Asia and takes the fall once he's safe on the other side of the world as he can't pay the creditors. Smart, but very unethical, in my eyes..

I don't think they'll go bankrupt with this move, (in fact they'll probably make more money now with cheaper labour etc.) and I guess most buyers won't give a rats ass what Riot does. People don't seem to be that ethical anymore.. Just my 2 cents on the situation.

I disagree... I just bought a Riot kayak a week before this thread appeared, subscribed to it immediately. If what you're saying is true, I would never buy a boat from such a company.

After all, if a company, or owner is dishonest to his creditors, what's stopping him from being dishonest to us customers?

I think the whitewater community is pretty unique in its' outlook on life, money, etc. With so many companies making (lets be honest) very similar products at comparable prices, we as paddlers can afford to be picky in terms of ethics, favoring developing countries, ecology, etc.

I'm very interested in how this Riot situation pans out...

Basically the news I got yesterday (which is sort of confirmed by that news above) was:

Jeff has...um... pulled a fast one...on his creditors. He separated riot from voodoo, "acquired" riot for himself for nearly nothing, free and clear of debt, and left Voodoo to go belly up, making money in the process for himself as he took all riots/voodoos assets, and at the same time leaving the people who had backed him all this time out to dry.

Not really that hard to believe

For those not understanding "the parent company" there was in fact no such thing. I created Voodoo with Jeff simply out of need. When "watermark" and "confluence" were buying up companies, we needed to look big so we created Voodoo so we could have multiple lines - Riot, Azul, and Sun - and "appear" to be a big player. But in fact we always owned Voodoo 100% - Riot became simply one of the Voodoo brands. In recent years Azul and Sun were dropped and Riot was Voodoo's only line. Loans were made to Voodoo Technologies, as were checks, (rather than to Riot) but they were one and the same. It was just a meaningless shell. But, as you can see, this "shell" has been put to good use to pull a fast one on the people who backed him all these years through thick and thin.

I was getting all kinds of scowls yesterday in the National Bank of Canada, and I had to explain to them that I had nothing to do with Riot for 5 years now. You can imagine my discomfort in there until they understood I had nothing to do with this anymore. They are also my bank and I'm sure this reflects badly on me too even if I've been out for years.

Corran

whenever shadow company's are created, it's inevitable that some sort of dirty game is afoot.

Glad I didn't drop any cash on a Riot. Well teh firewall at work went crazy when I typed in wwww.riot.com , had guys in black at my desk in no time. I guess it was a sign...

Here's the right site . As far as Riot goes, I would think that they would have enough resources money-wise, considering that they just made a few new models (ninja, sword, large magnum). You never know in this economy, but the article seems a bit off, since Team Riot's site has been saying that you could buy a composite surf kayak at their location in Asheville...I will email a person who is sponsored and see if he has an opinion.

So I'm one of the creditors, got the bankruptcy package from demersbeaulne in Quebec, for those interested its Court #500-11-035366-091 and Estate #41-1156903. If what Corran says is true I am absolutely pissed as I provided a service to Riot Kayaks for which I incurred costs in good faith, and to know that Jeff is anywhere selling Riot Kayaks... Well, I have to say if Riot Kayaks are still being made he still owest the debt, bankruptcy papers or not - especially since I had never heard of Voodoo Technologies till I got the notice in the mail. And I strongly suspect I won't be alone in lining up, and if Jeff thinks he can waltz back into the market and try and sell kayaks - well, he'd better stay offshore, because I'm taking my debt back in kayaks at the first trade show where Riot dares to show up. Anyway, Corran, if you feel anything like the way I feel then you should pen a letter stating what you said here and send it to the bankruptcy trustee and probably Nationale Banque du Canada, as this may well be more a fraud investigation than a bankruptcy. And I hope a few more discussions like this start up, because Jeff seems to feel he has no need to answer emails or his phone to those who helped him but he can still do business like normal with everyone else. Sorry, Jeff, bad faith is a bad business decision, and you can have all the videos of pretty kayaks going down waterfalls on your website but walking away from a million dollars debt scott-free... Anyway, if it isn't already, the company will be poison soon enough and anyone who is a vendor, retailer or the purchasing public will do well to stay very far away. I don't mean to sound bitter, but there are people out there who are owed a hell of a lot more than me, and the unsuspecting public thinking they're getting a good kayak cheap should know what really is going on.

cjcc wrote:

Here's the right site . As far as Riot goes, I would think that they would have enough resources money-wise, considering that they just made a few new models (ninja, sword, large magnum). You never know in this economy, but the article seems a bit off, since Team Riot's site has been saying that you could buy a composite surf kayak at their location in Asheville...I will email a person who is sponsored and see if he has an opinion.

yeah thanks for the correct site, I've not heard of Google so could not find it. I learn everyday.

seems this Riot saga has leaving a trail of bad taste and devious business dealings. The truth will emerge. Won;t make the front page of The Times but its the kind of information the paddling community needs to be aware of. Devious dealings often overflows into other areas of the business.

What I don't like about this thread is that we don't have hard facts. The original text was published on a blog that I had never heard of before (and I know almost all kayak blogs...), and that blog doesn't quote a source.

User Elby sounds credibale, but he registered as a new Playak user only yesterday.

So it might as well all be a setup by a Riot competitor trying to discredit Riot by spreading such rumors. I'm not saying that's the case, but it's possible.

I hope we'll see some independent facts soon.

Well, Riot has a forum on playak.com, why don't they answer?

I find Corran to be a more credible poster than Elby in any case (no offence, just looks like you registered to post to this thread).

I hope we get to the truth of the matter sooner or later. What I like about this thread is that practices like this come to light. Even if this is a slander campaign, we'll eventually find out who's behind it and the guilty shall be known. Seems unlikely that this is something done by Riot's competitors though... More likely to be a last ditch attempt to save a sinking company.

I know very little about whats going on at Riot other than the link that I, like you lot, read at the "savannah" site. I've had several people call me to give me tidbits of information, and about 3 dozen more call to ask for information. And really I have none other than 1) They filed for bankruptcy 2) Somehow the "brand" Riot has been separated from the "company" Voodoo, and so we may still see "riot" around in one form or another 3) we ALL wish everyone at Riot AND everyone involved (creditors and employees) the best of luck in these hard times.

I thought the news interesting and so have posted to the thread - it was already public knowledge anyway. In desperate times, desperate steps are needed and we can be sure that Jeff is taking these desperate steps. Our opinion on the morality of these steps is really none of our business - after all we're not the ones swimming for our lives.

So - BEST of luck to ALL at Riot. I have many good friends there and I wish them all well. And to the folks like Elby, I certainly hope you can get what you're owed. I've been in your shoes before and its no fun.

Corran

I had some time to think since my last posting and reading Corran's original post. The concept of a "shell" company doesn't wash. Voodoo Technologies was a registered corporation. It had a bank account and was credible enough to secure a major bank loan.

Riot Kayaks on the other hand is a brand name. Companies can have as many brands as they want, but checks and income go through the parent company account. Jeff Rivest cannot go to a bank and open an account under Riot Kayaks. It has no legal entity. The best Jeff could do is register Riot Kayaks as a trademark unless he starts another company.

Corporations have very strict guidelines for reporting to track taxes, etc. To get a secured bank loan, you need bricks, mortar or machinery. This means assets are tracked to claim the tax benefits from depreciation. So there's no mystery about who owns the assets.

There are also very strict rules for going bankrupt. You can't simply take the assets, or sell yourself the store inventory and fixtures for a dollar the day before filing the bankruptcy paperwork. If you could everyone would do it, and creditors would never get a penny. So to do so is against the law - theft or fraud. Usually assets are sold at an auction - down to the last hammer.

So here's my problem: if Jeff is overseas, is watching his company go under and thinks so what, I've got the molds I'm going to continue making kayaks, this is the brain-dead type of thinking that lands jail terms. The molds are the property of the company, which in the event of bankrupcty the ownership reverts to the creditors. They are no longer his to use, and even if he sold them to himself I think he will have a very tough time telling the bankruptcy trustees that Voodoo Technologies was operating as a kayaking manufacturer without molds.

So technically Riot Kayaks should no longer be operating.

As for credibility, whatever. It'll come out in the wash soon enough. The Savannah site lifted the notice word for word from a paddling industry newsletter distributed by Wavelength Magazine. There's another thread on the Wavelength Magazine forum - wavelengthmagazine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

Right now Jeff's silence is the main credibility. He's gotta be feeling the heat whever he is now. Come out, come out Jeff, wherever you are!

A few "facts" for you.

Riot was a registered, incorporated company. it came to be before Voodoo (Les Technologies Voodoo). The original loans were to Riot, not Voodoo. Riot had been in business as a brand/company for many years before we created Voodoo.

Voodoo was created, and incorporated, when we acquired Louis Randeau's composite company, which we renamed Azul Composites. At the same time, we had been making the brand Sun as a secondary brand under Riot. So Voodoo was created as the Umbrella company (your bricks and mortar), under which "riot, Azul, Sun and Azul Composites existed as brands. Azul and Sun were never incorporated. Riot was incorporated in 1996.

But we never technically dismantled Riot as an incorporated company in its own right.

That's the history.

Now, how Jeff has been managing what under what since then I have no idea. Which loans were under Voodoo and which under Riot? Which assets belonged to Riot and which to Voodoo. Were they one and the same, or separate? I don't know. Many things changed after I left.

So what is owned, and owed, by Voodoo and Riot might be one and the same. it might not. Also, good luck for a creditor in Canada, or the UK etc, to be able to go to China and get molds etc. I'm not suggesting anything illegal in Jeffs actions, but if one wanted to be sneaky its not that hard (not that he would take this route).

it would be tough for a creditor to get Riots molds, currently in China. It would be easy to start a "new company" called Riot, under a friends or family members name, because the original one was "les Kayaks Riot, Inc." and the new one might be "Les technologies Riot", and to get those molds running. Stuff like this happens all the time.

Now I doubt very much that Jeff is up to anything illegal, and for this you need to talk to him, but all kinds of possibilities are possible, from the perfectly legal to the highly illegal but tough to prove.

its also possible that its something simple and legal - like for example... Les Technologies Voodoo is bankrupt, but Les Kayaks Riot are not. It all depends on what the legal structure of these firms is currently.

I'm not passing judgment - just letting you know the "history" behind the companies structure.

Corran

One other thing I'd like to share:

Even if there is truth in the original posting, I refuse to believe that it was an evil setup by Jeff.

Riot has been supporting Playak since 1998, and I've met Jeff on many occasions, so I think I know him a little, and the accusations just don't fit in with my impressions.

The banks are pulling plugs all over the place these days, so it may as well be the case that the whole thing came as a surprise to Riot.

Don't know, but the evil accusations don't do justice to the Jeff I know. I hope I'm right...

Even if you knew Jeff, you can't know for sure if he was planning an evil scheme or anything. You can know somebody for years and they can still surprise you with the most incomprehensible action . No matter what, some people will suffer from this situation. A sad day for the sport.

teamriotkayaks.com/

I still find it hard to believe that they would announce new models like their new composite surf kayaks, and then go bankrupt. Hopefully, they file chapter 11 and stay around, since the new surf kayaks are priced lower than most composites, as is the Boogie being priced much lower than other plastic surf kayaks. I wouldn't be surprised to see a merger with another company either.

teamriotkayaks.com/

an aother update if nothing count as a modification

Another update: paddlinglife.net/paddling_life_article_detail.php?id=386

that's not really an update, but rather a digest of the thread on this very forum

I guess time will tell what will become of Riot.

What will also be interesting is what Ben Brown and Steve Fisher will do, should Riot actually fold totally.. Good luck to all of them!

Im a ex-employe of RIOT KAYAKS that work there for many years and just like Corran have say Jeff have pull another fast one again!!! Let's put some things clear here. this fast one started in august of 2008 when Jeff and is (want to be bill Gates) partner Marc , started to dismantle all the molds and ask us to pack them up in containers on direction of CHINA.. Then when all this was finish he call us one morning and told us to take a walk home that he did not need us no more..just like he did on is hundred of unpaid creditors. no respect or feelings of pulling fast one on over 20 faithfulls employes that give him time, that trusted him and was always on is side and this, despite the hard times the companie when true in years.. And you got is Rep Vincent going around the Net or in boating forums singing like a real love bird that Riot is very alive!!! the same Vincent (Riot Rep) that send some of us a email saying that Jeff have alot's of trick in is sleave and will be back soon in the business@ Riot is so Alive that some of us are still waiting for our papers T-4 so we can do ours income Tax report.. Oh! have i told you that all employes have been force to sign a confidentiality document before we got kick out like rats!!!! Have i told you that all summer Riot was selling boats from is warehouse to regulars customers!!! that is very professional for the dealer's... So pls i will not cry over this or him.. i remind you that this companies have spend many many thousand of creditors money to send approx 6 employes to China ( appart, salary, plane tickets, and all the things we do not know) It would have been very professional and honest and TRANSPARENCE toward all kayak peoples around the world to receive a statement of the real situation insted of hiding like little coqueroaches and pretend it's paradise and everything's under control!!!! There was a liquidation add last week in the Montreal news papers!!! I personnaly saw and touch the quality of the boats from China, reminding me of my old Fisher Price baby bottle....

AdrianTregoning wrote:

What will also be interesting is what Ben Brown and Steve Fisher will do, should Riot actually fold totally.. Good luck to all of them!

I'll answer my own question with this link. Check it out:
canoekayak.com/features/paddling-news/3-...s-with-steve-fisher/


I quote from the above article.

Steve Fisher wrote:

Make sure that your info isn't coming from guys like Corran [Addison] or the rest of the losers putting stuff up on forums. I assure you that they don't know what they're talking about.

Sure Steve!!! it's easy to call everyone looser's when you never take the time to analyze your self???

Coming to Riot parking lot with the nice and expensif Caravan paid by RIOT money taken from employe's that have not receive because they have give everything for this companie!!! ( i remind you some of them work there for many years and still was minimum wage) surely to pay your big time and not justified expenses.......... Never be able to say Hi to the peoples that built your boats to be who you are today!!! WOW you should be a shame of your BULL.....

I was one that got fired because i was not fast enough to take all the assets out of the country because someone somewhere was planning something!!!! Remember that you did not lost your nice t-shirts or free pants from all your sponsers that was sending them to RIOT ..But 20 devoted employes did and this, in a very onfaithfull way and nasty one!!! Lucky you daddy is rich!!!

Sure, it's like politic, everyone is pushing toward where the cash come from...lol

I suggest you to go and represent RIOt in front of all the creditors and employes that they have left.... I wonder if your paddles and your mouth would be as good ????

Be respectfull pls, not only to us the ex-staff, but also for many thousands peoples using the net as a information center....

Look like i will need to put some journalist on this never ending, questionning, or twillight zone smelling cake????

As i know Corran was clear and not negatif in here, he was only trying to explain ad share what have i learn my self as a Jeff close employe....

Oh!!! by the way Steve i remember one of my last bill sending you a KAYAK in Africa....on Riot running bill by the way!!! lol over $4000.00.... or not far....


When the boat price was 1/2 price...... better do some YOGA baby

Tell me Steve? do you wish to talk about all the inventory's of RIOT accessory's i have send to California over 15 pallets??? Before the bankruptcy?????

Do you wish to talk about all these kayak's we have sold to regular's customer's in the warehouse cutting at same time the dealer's chances to make profits???? Don't tell me now this is not looser way of doing business?

Or, maybe you wish to talk about peoples or employes been paid under the table to fuck the gouverment???

My dad told me one day, there is peoples preparing war and some going to the battle!!!

It's way different from a river bed....trust me.....

shelock_home,

Please be careful when choosing your words. I can understand your're emotional (look at all the ??? and !!!) about the subject, but please try to stick to hard facts.

You're on the absolute borderline of me deleting your posts, and I don't like doing that, but just using that F word would be enough reason, and comparing people to cockroaches is definitely not in line with the Playak culture.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion on Playak, but please refrain from insulting people and using 'bad' language.

Thanks,
Jeroen

AdrianTregoning wrote:

AdrianTregoning wrote:

What will also be interesting is what Ben Brown and Steve Fisher will do, should Riot actually fold totally.. Good luck to all of them!

I'll answer my own question with this link. Check it out:
canoekayak.com/features/paddling-news/3-...s-with-steve-fisher/


I quote from the above article.

Steve Fisher wrote:

Make sure that your info isn't coming from guys like Corran [Addison] or the rest of the losers putting stuff up on forums. I assure you that they don't know what they're talking about.

I know... Steve sure put me in my place after the "looser" comments like this one (below)

"I know very little about whats going on at Riot other than the link that I, like you lot, read at the "savannah" site. I've had several people call me to give me tidbits of information, and about 3 dozen more call to ask for information. And really I have none other than 1) They filed for bankruptcy 2) Somehow the "brand" Riot has been separated from the "company" Voodoo, and so we may still see "riot" around in one form or another 3) we ALL wish everyone at Riot AND everyone involved (creditors and employees) the best of luck in these hard times.

I thought the news interesting and so have posted to the thread - it was already public knowledge anyway. In desperate times, desperate steps are needed and we can be sure that Jeff is taking these desperate steps. Our opinion on the morality of these steps is really none of our business - after all we're not the ones swimming for our lives.

So - BEST of luck to ALL at Riot. I have many good friends there and I wish them all well. And to the folks like Elby, I certainly hope you can get what you're owed. I've been in your shoes before and its no fun."

Corran

JanCapinski wrote:

I disagree... I just bought a Riot kayak a week before this thread appeared, subscribed to it immediately. If what you're saying is true, I would never buy a boat from such a company.

After all, if a company, or owner is dishonest to his creditors, what's stopping him from being dishonest to us customers?

Well said Jan...
I did the same - bought a new Riot boat about 2 weeks before this thread. Had I known about the situation, I would´ve chosen something else.

Jeroen: This thread is interesting from customers point of view, please leave it as it is.

I apologize to Jerone (admin) and all the members on some of my comment's or words that was maybe hard for this site, but for us ex-employe's, is hard to look, read and see everything that is been wrote on different's NET sites when we are the one that know the real deal!!!!

We have been treated like real time shit by JF and is new partner call Marc Pelland from woodchuck skateboard...

No respect toward all we have giving them... Only the urgency to get all the assets and marchandise out of the St-Patrick wharehouse as soon as possible...despite we knew something was coming ( i was close from the Riot account lady)

Then once all this was made up, we got call by Jeff one morning to tell us we where all fired because he did not need us again....

We think it would have been professional and fair for US to be advise in advance... so we can turn around and get our self some new jobs ....... that was not the case.... even worst... alot's of us can't even make our income taxe report because we did not receive the documents from our lay off (t-4)..... (despite the many phone calls on Jeff Cell, e-mail or the comp phone number)

I will spear the details and info's ...because im sure this can create law suite from alot's of creditors reading this...and for other reasons!


Despite we are respecting Steve and what he have represented for Riot, We still think that Corran was the most honnest in all this ordeal that Riot is going true! Corran was really the back bone of this wonderfull adventure that was RIOT. We think that everyone is a looser in all this, the employes, the creditors, the paddlers, the business, the owners, and the wonderfull world of kayaking.......

But we need to remember that honnesty/transparency is the best way to keep the real friends and good business!